Is the Great Apostasy Here?

Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 2 Timothy 3:12-13

A lot of us have been dismayed with all the aberrant doctrines we are pummeled with daily. There is sorrow over a lack of understanding from professing Christians. And it is troubling to deal with those who compromise with faulty, and outright false gospels and doctrines promoted constantly. Everyone wants to teach, but none of them want to learn from His Word. This blog stems from out of a Facebook post I made, but I’ve expanded it with another conversation that ensued several days later, to show a couple of examples.

Spiritualizing Scripture

I had a conversation the other day with a very confused ‘preacher’ about the gospel of salvation. After a back and forth it was apparent that he denied a literal Millennial Kingdom and a rapture of any place or time. When Scripture was shared, he spiritualized Scripture to such a degree that I thought to myself that an atheist could have handled the Word better than he did. (He was not the only one I spoke to that was spiritualizing Scripture this week)

Now understanding end times prophecy is not how anyone gets saved. But, he didn’t understand any Scripture that was brought up, was not even close to its original intent, although he claimed to have a spiritual mind. Anything he chose to interpret, was interpreted spiritually.

Throughout the mostly one-sided conversation, I asked him what the gospel of salvation was. He deflected or outright ignored the question several times. I got clearer asking if he knew where he was going if he died.

It is somewhat typical (of these who claim to ‘be spiritual’), to see them point to themselves, or twist His Word of truth to fit whatever mixed-up doctrine they hold to. It’s expected yet also surprising to watch them turn and accuse, rather than simply share the gospel.

Again, understanding eschatology (end times prophecy) is not necessary for someone to be saved, but for interest, here are a few of his thoughts:

As for the Millennial Kingdom and Jesus sitting on the Throne?

He doesn’t believe in a literal physical Kingdom and said Jesus was sitting on the Throne of his heart.

As for the Second Coming?

He first said: a second coming wasn’t mentioned in Scripture, but then when we shared many passages, he then said it already happened in AD 60 (I assume he meant AD 70).

As for a literal New Jerusalem?

He said: it did not have streets of Gold, nor mansions (I thought he would just argue the translation of John 14:1-3 should say dwellings). But, no, he stated Jesus does not catch us up to Him in the clouds at all literally, that this was some sort of euphoric experience. He likened the New Jerusalem to the temple of our body (Rev 21:10-27). In that passage we see literal descriptions, exact measurements, and before He spoke these things, He said,

“Write: for these words are true and faithful.”

I believe when we see plain speech that is clearly not figurative (such as exact measurements or a description of streets of gold so fine it looked like glass), we can and should interpret it literally.

His answer to taking the Scriptures literally where literal?

He said: “The scriptures are spiritual to be understood by a spiritual mind. You`re taking the scriptures and making them mundane without any hope for those who read them.”

(Oh my poor deceived friend — His Word is so far from mundane, this is just how you errantly see it in your mind).

The Gospel of our Salvation

So, I thought I better ask about the gospel again as he had completely ignored my previous questions on whether he was sure where he might go when he died.

I went back and looked in our conversation and saw that I asked him point blank 3 times about the gospel of salvation. Nothing. So, I said to him once again, that I had asked him several times about what he thought the gospel of salvation was, and that he had not responded.

I also answered his accusation that I did not have the Spirit of truth. I know who those accusations came from, the accuser of the brethren — it was not the Voice of my Shepherd.

(Please remember this dear friends, do not take these accusations from others towards you as having any truth. Listen to the manner of voice, their words. They do not use His, or they twist a small portion. They often accuse of the very thing they are doing. Our God, who desires none should perish, has lovingly been drawing all men — asking us to pray for all (1 Tim 2:1-6). He would not accuse this way. It is Satan who is the accuser of the brethren.)

I finished with him saying:

But never mind that, I am concerned for your own soul.

You have not spoken of Jesus, our Savior — Who suffered and died, shedding His blood rising again from the dead, victorious over sin, death and the grave. And to all who believe upon Him to save them, He instantly seals them with His Spirit until the day of redemption. I have believed His Word (which is truth). You have twisted it since the beginning. Only one who does that (John 8:44). You better figure this out for your sake and any you love.

WHAT DID HE SAY HIS GOSPEL WAS?

His sad response where thinking he finally gave the gospel?

HE SAID: “No scripture to back up your claim “He instantly seals them with His Spirit “.

(My comment: I had already given him Eph 1:13-14; Rom 8:9; Eph 4:4-6; 1 Cor 12:13).

HE CONTINUED: This is an entirely different experience from the salvation experience when >>I repented of my sinful ways at age 15. >>Three days later He baptized me with the Holy Ghost and Fire. >>>Been there and done that.<<< Lady, I have preached the Good News of the Kingdom possibly longer than you have been living. In Texas prisons for 22 years and the foreign mission died on four different continents since 2003.

COMMENT TO THE AUDIENCE, NOT HIM: Does this remind you of ‘another gospel’ that we see out there daily assaulting our senses? They commend themselves (2 Cor 10:12). They think they are ‘on fire’ for the Lord, always testifying only of the Holy Spirit, not Jesus. These are not understanding that the Holy Spirit doesn’t even speak on His own, but what He hears, He will speak (John 16:13). The Spirit does not testify of Himself, but He testifies of JESUS (John 15:26).

• Where is Jesus in their ‘gospel’?
• Where is His shed blood on the cross for all our transgressions?
• Where is His death resurrection guaranteeing we too will rise again? A picture of us being born again.
• Where is the mention of the unspeakable free gift of eternal life?

Thanks be unto God for his unspeakable gift. 2 Cor 9:15

A helpful article from my friend Hillary on ‘How to have Peace with God.’

Another conversation with a Calvinist

Several days later, I tried to have a conversation with a Calvinist Lordship believer (how she identified). She said both doctrines were Biblical. When someone else asked her how she was saved, I said I too would like to know (since she claimed the five solas), one being salvation is only by grace, the other sola fide (solely by faith). But the words she spoke belied the substance of what she claimed. Remember, we are in a spiritual battle, not with these people, but with the enemy.

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Ephesians 6:10-13

She said the condition of receiving the free gift of salvation wasn’t ‘mere mental assent’ (a John MacArthurism), and then shared her ‘gospel’. She called it the three ‘R’s, RECOGNIZE you were a wretched sinner, and that you had to repent of your sins (when I explained repent did not mean turn from sins, later she changed it on a new post to read ‘repent of your sinful nature’. She then said you received Christ into your heart, by a heartfelt prayer. That everything had to be done with your whole heart and your whole mind. (separate thoughts)

Other loadship (lordship) catch phrases she used:

“Even the demons know Him & tremble.”

(We know demons aren’t offered salvation, this is not what James 2 is speaking of.)

“Unless a person has that head and heart connection, they don’t make it into Heaven. They miss Heaven by 18 inches. That is the distance from the brain to the heart.”

(Even though we usually terminology which includes the heart, often throughout His Word, heart and mind are interchangeable as we really believe obviously with our mind, not our beating heart organ of flesh).

 “A saved life is a changed life. God hasn’t saved you if He hasn’t changed you.”

(We are all changed when we’re born again, but maybe not visibly, outwardly to others, which is what they mean. In addition, some believers either do not grow, or some regress, and others may give up. But these who push these doctrines can never define how much change, for how long, nor address the fact that oftentimes many religions have ‘change’, such as ‘burning bosoms’, ‘turning from sin’, and other ‘proofs of life’, but it has nothing to do with Biblical Salvation.)

I replied: (without bolding)

Sorry friend, what you told me is not found in the Scriptures.

In those ‘3 easy steps’ you left out the gospel.

Nowhere did you speak of who Jesus is (Lord, kyrios/kurios which means God, the Messiah).

Nowhere did you speak of His work on the cross, shedding His perfect blood for the remission of all of our sins (Col 2:13-15).

Nor did you speak of His burial and His resurrection from the dead, which proved He is God, who has the power to take His life back up again as He said He would (John 10:17-18). His resurrection guaranteed we would rise again to eternal life with Him as He has the victory over sin, death and the grave (1 Cor 15:54-57).

So if Jesus paid for all of my sins, which ones do I have left to turn from?

SHE SAID: //knowing Him is not mere mental assent.//

That is not even said in His Word, it is just a typical Calvinist phrase. I understand John MacArthur and others like him who like to take metanoia, which literally means a change of mind (which is mental) and redefine it. I’ve gone all the way back to the Septuagint, and way back then they defined it as a change of thinking. But the word is believe, not more than mere mental assent. People who twist it this way are making a mistake.

SHE SAID: //A person that truly, belongs to Jesus Christ, undergoes an unmistakable transformation in his/her life. A saved life is a changed life. God hasn’t saved you if He hasn’t changed you.//

Again, not in Scripture (and please don’t misuse half of a verse — 2 Corinthians 13:5, as most people like Washer and JMac do).

A saved life SHOULD be a changing life (sanctification). And if we love Jesus we should be feeding and tending His sheep, washing their feet (a picture of experiential sanctification) to help them grow (John 21:15-17; John 13:3-17). But we see CLEARLY in Scripture, that believers were doing terrible things, one only needs to read 1 Cor 5 (incestuous adulterer) and even those who died in 1 Cor 11, taken out, for their abuse of the Lord’s supper, yet they were saved.

SHE SAID: //It doesn’t necessarily require a sinner’s prayer, but a HEARTfelt prayer in ones own words.//

If you read through the start of the church throughout Acts, not once was the person asked to say a ‘heartfelt prayer’ although prayer is good. They were asked to BELIEVE most often, sometimes solely repent (meta-noia, change/after & mind/think/thought), twice I believe turn to God.

Again, ‘repent of sins’ is not in His Word when spoken in relation to receiving the free gift of eternal life (another thing you left out).

Good luck doing everything with your whole heart and mind when you are an ungodly sinner without strength (ref. Rom 5:6-8).

Don’t add conditions, remember, we are saved apart from any works or righteous acts of our own. Be sure you have only believed apart from works, otherwise it is no longer grace (Rom 4:4;11:6). EQ

Maybe the response above seemed a little strong to her, so she responded several times, which I’ll just share in one comment without removing anything she said, (other than to remove her name).

“You are very very deceived and under false delusion. I’m not going to read your bilge.”

“You hold yourself up as this great exegete that knows more than anyone.”

“You no longer get to spew your false bilge here acting like you have been. You do a Gush Gallop that no one can understand. Obviously done on purpose, to confuse.”

“You have an arrogant attitude of spiritual superiority.”

“Your comments are long, confusing, & filled w/Scriptorture. No doubt, done on purpose.”

LAST COMMENT FOR ALL OF YOU READING, I DID NOT SAY THIS TO HER, MIGHT HAVE SERVED TO INCITE HER:

Ironically, she did misspell Scripture to read Scriptorture. I thought that so terribly sad as it seemed apropos, like even hearing Scripture did torture and anger her.

And of course I shared all that Scripture on purpose… faith comes by hearing the Word, not by hearing me. I want people to look up the Word and see what it says.

And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life. John 6:40, 47

Jesus did it all. All to Him I owe.

Dear Friends, Jesus paid the price in full on His cross (Col 2:13-15). WORKS, even ‘wonderful works’ are nothing but filthy rags in His sight (Isaiah 64:6). Do not try to offer them up for the FREE GIFT of salvation (Romans 6:23), if so, you do not have the gift if you try to climb up into the sheep pen another way than the ONLY WAY He has offered (John 10:1). There is only ONE WAY to enter in (John 14:6) that sheep fold. JESUS is the door of the sheep (John 10:9). He is the only way to the Father.

He gave His life for all in great love — and all they can do is point to themselves, their sincerity, their works, their repenting from sin?

Pastors or teachers have a graver responsibility (James 3:1). So blinded these ‘pastors’ or ‘preachers’ (the first conversation) are with their pride and their twisting of His Word with absolutely no fear (Isaiah 66:2; Psalm 50:16-17). Yes, pray for them. Also realize they are leading others straight to hell with their so-called gospel. It is ANOTHER gospel. And even ANOTHER Jesus. Do not put up with them (2 Corinthians 11:3-15).

Jesus said we would know them (False prophets) by their fruits, and then He proceeds to show us in Matthew 7 how they justify themselves (by their “many wonderful works”). They often do not know the gospel, or they give you another gospel. Beware of the wolves out there and be sure you know what the good news really is, for your family’s sake, and for yours, and any you love.

Love in Christ

What must I do to be saved (in booklet form)?