And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. (2 Tim 3:15)
Holly, Jack and Tom,
Oh my I just want to thank you guys so much. I am a baby Christian saved by the blood of Jesus, faith alone in Christ alone and have been getting fed by wolves and getting so confused . Had I not been really watching for false teaching I could have spent years. Praise be to God that one of the men of God mentioned the word Lordship salvation and I came across this website. What’s really difficult is finding a church. I kept hearing I needed to turn away from sin. My journey to this point has been a long year. But God is sooo faithful! It’s almost like I had to go through this to truthfully deliver the gospel. I just can’t thank everyone enough. Many, many blessings to you all! Lisa
Hi Lisa, praise God you believed on Jesus Christ and what He did!
There sure are many, many voices out there, but we were told, is in the end, there will be many deceivers and many deceived.
I have a recommended links site above for some ideas, and I highly recommend expreacherman.com as one of the voices out there who will be held accountable to the truth of God’s Word. Any believer should of course try to turn from sin, but this is not part of the gospel message. How do we turn from sin though as a believer? I think we have one good thing we can do, that is spend time with Him hearing His Word (Lk 10:38-42). Hide it in our heart so we won’t sin against Him (Ps 119:11). Remember to take heed to it, the Holy Spirit will bring it to our remembrance. Be encouraged, stay in His Word. Here are some suggestions I have for you.
Jesus knew the importance of the Word of truth in our life and even prayed for believers to be sanctified by the Word (Jn 17:17) The Word sanctifies/cleanses us, it’s important to study His Word with His approval in mind, and no one elses. 1 Thess 5:21 tells us to prove all things and hold fast to that good. The Bereans were noble in that regard, they searched the Scriptures to see if what they were being told was really true. We should always do our best to do the same. Make sure someone is commended as a Bible teacher, not by his popularity, but certainly by being diligent to test the spirits, and to check what they say against God’s Word. Feel free to ask any of us here if you are unsure, and we can probably point out what people might look for or be concerned about in the teachings of one. I pray for the Lord to guard you from these wolves.
Desire the Sincere Milk, meditate on His Word Day and Night, Pray you rightly divide His Word of truth, Love and Treasure His Word (Ps 119:140,162), and be in the strong meat of His Word so you are able to discern between good and evil (Heb 5:12-14).
There are many verses about the Word, about abiding in it, getting counsel, wisdom, and understanding from it. Pray for wisdom, and ask Him to show you through His Word. Look in more than one place as you are learning, make sure you understand context of any passage (sometimes the whole book is necessary to know, i.e. Job, or you’ll be quoting the words of his ‘friend’ Eliphaz). Get a notebook, and write down your questions, and search for the answers later. Write down what you can discern from a passage such as who is speaking, who he is speaking to. I.E., “carnal believers from the church at Corinth”, or “those believers who had been bewitched into thinking they could finish in the flesh at Galatia – by lawkeepers/Judaizers”.
Get the who, what, why, where, when, & how questions as you can during study. I like to make notes in my Bible for the important points. And when you go to the cross references, sometimes it will be applicable, other times the reference may be just to the usage of the word itself. Like light might cross reference light somewhere else. So, keep always submitting to Him, resisting the enemy by putting on your whole armor every day (Eph 6).
Pray always for Him to show you the truth, acknowledge Him in all your ways, He will direct your paths (pp of Pr 3:5-6). Most of all from a personal standpoint, don’t beat yourself up, or try on your own steam, enjoy His Word, and let His Word work in you, trusting Him for the changes He will make in you. Sometimes it’s not the order we’re thinking 🙂 (Is 55:10-11, 1 Thess 2:13).
Thank you Holly for all your encouragement. I have also found much help in the Strongs exhaustive concordance as the current meaning of words aren’t always so clear as looking up the Hebrew or Greek. Thanks for all you are doing to bring to light that which is true!
This is so true Lisa, such as repent/repentance or the other day even, the giving of thanks, was eucharisto, and I had to reflect on how that word has sure been misused and misapplied….sad…
So glad you are my friend, the Lord is good! In His love, Holly
Or even the word temptation in the Lord’s Prayer is more like the word trial. In fact, I really wonder about this word meaning situation sometimes! The bible says in James 1:13
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
And we ask in the Lord’s Prayer not to be led into temptation, if you don’t understand that to mean trial, well it can be a bit confusing.
Very good example Lisa, it is always good to study to be approved unto Him, so we won’t need to be ashamed because we will rightly divide His Word of truth.
If we took divide, and applied some of our own modern day definitions too, some might not quite get it 🙂
Hi Holly,
I have a question about Galatians chapter 5, in specific verse 21. I read a commentary on this and it says “This does not say that a Christian loses his salvation if he lapses into a sin of the flesh, but that a person who lives continually on such a level of moral corruption gives evidence of not being a child of God.”
Do you agree with this? If so, how can you have salvation and not be a child of God? In not, how do you interpret this verse?
Hi Lisa, I have MANY ideas, so I’ll go right into that, but I disagree this passage at all says “but that a person who lives continually on such a level of moral corruption gives evidence of not being a child of God.”
May I ask first who the commentary was from? Many do not realize that much commentary is of the reformed/Calvinism or Lordship persuasion. I’ll write a comment to share with you and hope that Jim or Jack may have more to share with you, or also hold me accountable if I don’t have it quite right.
Hi Holly,
Its Walvoord and Zuck commentary. He does say that they don’t lose their salvation but gives “evidence” of not being a child of God. Do have any suggestions as to a good commentary?
I would definitely like to hear from all three of you guys on this verse. Thanks so much.
Your friend in Christ, Lisa
Thanks for reminding me, been a few busy months for me with parental health things going on. I did start a reply to you, not sure what happened to it, so I’ll start over. 1) Although I am not KJVO, I would suggest that KJV is a better rendering, those that “do” these things vs. “practice” (prasso). Similarly to the Matthew 7 passage although different root word, was still rendered “practice” regarding lawlessness. You might look at the word in 1 John 2 & also 3 and you’ll get the picture. Here is a video you should really consider. It is by Dr. Ralph Yankee Arnold that might give you some insight on the problematic passages specifically regarding ‘practicing sin’, here is the link. http://youtu.be/FnIH_UTMrys
Now I think we always have to get a few things straight when we look at any passage in the Bible, first prayer of course. We always have to consider context, but we should always have straight whether we can DO any work whatsoever to earn righteousness. And the second thing to be clear on is whether there any work we can do whatsoever to lose our righteousness. Thirdly, Who is our righteousness and How do we acquire it? (Gal 5:5; Rom 10:4) And will He leave us? (Heb 13:5) Were we given everlasting life or probationary? And will we ever come into condemnation (Jn 5:24, 3:16-18; 6:39-40, 47; Rom 8:1)?
If we look at each passage that is unclear with those truths already straight in our heads, I believe we will be able to straighten out what is being spoken of or at the very least, it will not muddy our foundation if we haven’t yet grasped it.
First in a passage we have to look at multiple things. Context is important. Who is being spoken to? What is being addressed? Throughout the book of Galatians we see contrasts. The Law vs. righteousness by faith, Sons/heirs vs. slaves, Bondage vs. Freedom/liberty, Spirit vs. flesh, Grace or Faith vs. law, Circumcision vs. uncircumcision, etc.
So let’s consider first, besides being given everlasting life, besides no longer being under the law, we know that if we have received Him, we are Sons (Jn 1:12). If we have believed on Him, the Spirit has indwelt us forever, we are sealed, born again, passed from death unto life. Since we are no longer under the law, Christ is our righteousness. We know the promise of salvation is based on His promise, not our performance.
It is really easy to look at that passage and say, “uh oh”, for if we are honest, we know we have done some of these things, and will probably do them in the future. And then you would have to determine what puts you into the ‘practicing category’ if that is how. I believe this passage speaks to those who are IN the flesh vs. being IN the Spirit, and if your commentary (whichever one wrote that) says that if you “do these things you don’t have ‘evidence’ that you are a child”, then I’d like to suggest they take a closer look at the entire passage. But I’ll include a few verses to think on.
15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
I hope I haven’t made this too long, or haven’t explained enough. We can see the jealousies, the provokings, the envying, the strife etc. spoken of regarding these believers, these brethren. So if this was supposedly proof whether someone was saved (works of the flesh), then the Galatians sure had not proven they were saved at all. Yet the apostle Paul referred to them as believers in about as many ways possible to word it.. and he was under the Inspiration (as we know) of the Holy Spirit. We cannot read someone’s heart, whether they have truly believed the gospel or not, but that is the only parameter whereby to judge whether someone is His. I hope that helped. Hard to tell in these little windows.
(P.S. – somehow I had copied the passage multiple times.) I did not purposely leave out the fruit of the Spirit, was just trying to deal with the question. No one will be justified by works of the flesh. Will one be condemned by the same if they are no longer under the law?
Lisa, don’t know if you realized I replied since I had done it under you. I just ran across this, been a bit under the weather, but you may enjoy his explanation. Much more detailed, and looks at all of the passages cross referenced with Galatian 5 and also 1 Cor 6 and others.
Thank you for sharing Lisa, I sure always appreciate Tom’s sermons so far, and also his book “Secure Forever! God’s Promise or our perseverance?” I will listen to it, thank you very much.
Thanks Holly,
It can’t be proclaimed enough “So then Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.” (Romans 10:17)
The precious Word of God!
In Jesus Christ eternally, Jack
Amen Jack!
And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. (2 Tim 3:15)
Holly, Jack and Tom,
Oh my I just want to thank you guys so much. I am a baby Christian saved by the blood of Jesus, faith alone in Christ alone and have been getting fed by wolves and getting so confused . Had I not been really watching for false teaching I could have spent years. Praise be to God that one of the men of God mentioned the word Lordship salvation and I came across this website. What’s really difficult is finding a church. I kept hearing I needed to turn away from sin. My journey to this point has been a long year. But God is sooo faithful! It’s almost like I had to go through this to truthfully deliver the gospel. I just can’t thank everyone enough. Many, many blessings to you all! Lisa
Hi Lisa, praise God you believed on Jesus Christ and what He did!
There sure are many, many voices out there, but we were told, is in the end, there will be many deceivers and many deceived.
I have a recommended links site above for some ideas, and I highly recommend expreacherman.com as one of the voices out there who will be held accountable to the truth of God’s Word. Any believer should of course try to turn from sin, but this is not part of the gospel message. How do we turn from sin though as a believer? I think we have one good thing we can do, that is spend time with Him hearing His Word (Lk 10:38-42). Hide it in our heart so we won’t sin against Him (Ps 119:11). Remember to take heed to it, the Holy Spirit will bring it to our remembrance. Be encouraged, stay in His Word. Here are some suggestions I have for you.
Jesus knew the importance of the Word of truth in our life and even prayed for believers to be sanctified by the Word (Jn 17:17) The Word sanctifies/cleanses us, it’s important to study His Word with His approval in mind, and no one elses. 1 Thess 5:21 tells us to prove all things and hold fast to that good. The Bereans were noble in that regard, they searched the Scriptures to see if what they were being told was really true. We should always do our best to do the same. Make sure someone is commended as a Bible teacher, not by his popularity, but certainly by being diligent to test the spirits, and to check what they say against God’s Word. Feel free to ask any of us here if you are unsure, and we can probably point out what people might look for or be concerned about in the teachings of one. I pray for the Lord to guard you from these wolves.
Desire the Sincere Milk, meditate on His Word Day and Night, Pray you rightly divide His Word of truth, Love and Treasure His Word (Ps 119:140,162), and be in the strong meat of His Word so you are able to discern between good and evil (Heb 5:12-14).
There are many verses about the Word, about abiding in it, getting counsel, wisdom, and understanding from it. Pray for wisdom, and ask Him to show you through His Word. Look in more than one place as you are learning, make sure you understand context of any passage (sometimes the whole book is necessary to know, i.e. Job, or you’ll be quoting the words of his ‘friend’ Eliphaz). Get a notebook, and write down your questions, and search for the answers later. Write down what you can discern from a passage such as who is speaking, who he is speaking to. I.E., “carnal believers from the church at Corinth”, or “those believers who had been bewitched into thinking they could finish in the flesh at Galatia – by lawkeepers/Judaizers”.
Get the who, what, why, where, when, & how questions as you can during study. I like to make notes in my Bible for the important points. And when you go to the cross references, sometimes it will be applicable, other times the reference may be just to the usage of the word itself. Like light might cross reference light somewhere else. So, keep always submitting to Him, resisting the enemy by putting on your whole armor every day (Eph 6).
Pray always for Him to show you the truth, acknowledge Him in all your ways, He will direct your paths (pp of Pr 3:5-6). Most of all from a personal standpoint, don’t beat yourself up, or try on your own steam, enjoy His Word, and let His Word work in you, trusting Him for the changes He will make in you. Sometimes it’s not the order we’re thinking 🙂 (Is 55:10-11, 1 Thess 2:13).
God bless you! Good to know you, Holly
Thank you Holly for all your encouragement. I have also found much help in the Strongs exhaustive concordance as the current meaning of words aren’t always so clear as looking up the Hebrew or Greek. Thanks for all you are doing to bring to light that which is true!
Your “friend” Lisa
This is so true Lisa, such as repent/repentance or the other day even, the giving of thanks, was eucharisto, and I had to reflect on how that word has sure been misused and misapplied….sad…
So glad you are my friend, the Lord is good! In His love, Holly
Or even the word temptation in the Lord’s Prayer is more like the word trial. In fact, I really wonder about this word meaning situation sometimes! The bible says in James 1:13
13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
And we ask in the Lord’s Prayer not to be led into temptation, if you don’t understand that to mean trial, well it can be a bit confusing.
Thank you friend, Lisa
Very good example Lisa, it is always good to study to be approved unto Him, so we won’t need to be ashamed because we will rightly divide His Word of truth.
If we took divide, and applied some of our own modern day definitions too, some might not quite get it 🙂
Hi Holly,
I have a question about Galatians chapter 5, in specific verse 21. I read a commentary on this and it says “This does not say that a Christian loses his salvation if he lapses into a sin of the flesh, but that a person who lives continually on such a level of moral corruption gives evidence of not being a child of God.”
Do you agree with this? If so, how can you have salvation and not be a child of God? In not, how do you interpret this verse?
Eternally his, Lisa
Hi Lisa, I have MANY ideas, so I’ll go right into that, but I disagree this passage at all says “but that a person who lives continually on such a level of moral corruption gives evidence of not being a child of God.”
May I ask first who the commentary was from? Many do not realize that much commentary is of the reformed/Calvinism or Lordship persuasion. I’ll write a comment to share with you and hope that Jim or Jack may have more to share with you, or also hold me accountable if I don’t have it quite right.
Hi Holly,
Its Walvoord and Zuck commentary. He does say that they don’t lose their salvation but gives “evidence” of not being a child of God. Do have any suggestions as to a good commentary?
I would definitely like to hear from all three of you guys on this verse. Thanks so much.
Your friend in Christ, Lisa
Hi Holly,
I was looking for your interpretation of Galatians 5:21, thanks for your time.
Blessings, Lisa
Hi Lisa,
Thanks for reminding me, been a few busy months for me with parental health things going on. I did start a reply to you, not sure what happened to it, so I’ll start over. 1) Although I am not KJVO, I would suggest that KJV is a better rendering, those that “do” these things vs. “practice” (prasso). Similarly to the Matthew 7 passage although different root word, was still rendered “practice” regarding lawlessness. You might look at the word in 1 John 2 & also 3 and you’ll get the picture. Here is a video you should really consider. It is by Dr. Ralph Yankee Arnold that might give you some insight on the problematic passages specifically regarding ‘practicing sin’, here is the link. http://youtu.be/FnIH_UTMrys
Now I think we always have to get a few things straight when we look at any passage in the Bible, first prayer of course. We always have to consider context, but we should always have straight whether we can DO any work whatsoever to earn righteousness. And the second thing to be clear on is whether there any work we can do whatsoever to lose our righteousness. Thirdly, Who is our righteousness and How do we acquire it? (Gal 5:5; Rom 10:4) And will He leave us? (Heb 13:5) Were we given everlasting life or probationary? And will we ever come into condemnation (Jn 5:24, 3:16-18; 6:39-40, 47; Rom 8:1)?
If we look at each passage that is unclear with those truths already straight in our heads, I believe we will be able to straighten out what is being spoken of or at the very least, it will not muddy our foundation if we haven’t yet grasped it.
First in a passage we have to look at multiple things. Context is important. Who is being spoken to? What is being addressed? Throughout the book of Galatians we see contrasts. The Law vs. righteousness by faith, Sons/heirs vs. slaves, Bondage vs. Freedom/liberty, Spirit vs. flesh, Grace or Faith vs. law, Circumcision vs. uncircumcision, etc.
So let’s consider first, besides being given everlasting life, besides no longer being under the law, we know that if we have received Him, we are Sons (Jn 1:12). If we have believed on Him, the Spirit has indwelt us forever, we are sealed, born again, passed from death unto life. Since we are no longer under the law, Christ is our righteousness. We know the promise of salvation is based on His promise, not our performance.
It is really easy to look at that passage and say, “uh oh”, for if we are honest, we know we have done some of these things, and will probably do them in the future. And then you would have to determine what puts you into the ‘practicing category’ if that is how. I believe this passage speaks to those who are IN the flesh vs. being IN the Spirit, and if your commentary (whichever one wrote that) says that if you “do these things you don’t have ‘evidence’ that you are a child”, then I’d like to suggest they take a closer look at the entire passage. But I’ll include a few verses to think on.
15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
I hope I haven’t made this too long, or haven’t explained enough. We can see the jealousies, the provokings, the envying, the strife etc. spoken of regarding these believers, these brethren. So if this was supposedly proof whether someone was saved (works of the flesh), then the Galatians sure had not proven they were saved at all. Yet the apostle Paul referred to them as believers in about as many ways possible to word it.. and he was under the Inspiration (as we know) of the Holy Spirit. We cannot read someone’s heart, whether they have truly believed the gospel or not, but that is the only parameter whereby to judge whether someone is His. I hope that helped. Hard to tell in these little windows.
(P.S. – somehow I had copied the passage multiple times.) I did not purposely leave out the fruit of the Spirit, was just trying to deal with the question. No one will be justified by works of the flesh. Will one be condemned by the same if they are no longer under the law?
Lisa, don’t know if you realized I replied since I had done it under you. I just ran across this, been a bit under the weather, but you may enjoy his explanation. Much more detailed, and looks at all of the passages cross referenced with Galatian 5 and also 1 Cor 6 and others.
http://youtu.be/lfJLiU06VPc
Hi Holly,
This was such a good sermon by Tom Cucuzza, I thought you might want to share it.
By His Grace, Lisa
http://www.sermonaudio.com/playpopup.asp?SID=62011237434
Thank you for sharing Lisa, I sure always appreciate Tom’s sermons so far, and also his book “Secure Forever! God’s Promise or our perseverance?” I will listen to it, thank you very much.
In His love to you, Holly