ANOTHER GOSPEL – Faith alone?
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Excellent documentary film Mark, I imagine you will have some of them gnashing their teeth.
I am so impressed by this video that my friend and brother in Christ Mark has recently finished. And it is not even because he gave me some credit that I probably was not due. He is so thorough, and covers so much ground in this expose’, I will have to listen again to grasp all the wealth of information in it. I highly recommend this video as a must listen for everyone, but particular Bible study teachers and Pastors, who may be passing along some of these teachers. In turn, if you agree, recommend it to one of your friends. ~ Holly Garcia – redeemingmoments.com
Pastor Jack Weaver ~ Mark called several months ago asking permission to use some material and ideas from ExPreacherMan.com. We are happy we consented.
The progression of the video keeps your attention — Mark explains the simplicity of the Gospel of Grace and then, naming names, he exposes the preachers and proponents of “works salvation” (Probation). This mission is especially important to Mark because his is a former member of John MacArthur’s church. He realized the Truth, abandoned the lie perpetrated by JMac and is dedicated to exposing those who insist on adding works to the Gospel of God’s Grace.
This is a must watch video. Please recommend it to your friends, especially those who may be mixed up in false teaching. It is also a good doctrinal review for all believers. ~ expreacherman.com
Powerful and thoughtful video. It is faith alone in Jesus Christ that saves, beware of teaching outside the Bible that require works. Working at our faith is out of the love and desire to follow Jesus as His servant, not a requirement for eternity. ~ Marcie Mathews.
ANOTHER GOSPEL
What do John MacArthur, R. C. Sproul, Francis Chan, Paul Washer, David Platt, Tim Conway, Kyle Idleman, Kirk Cameron, Ray Comfort, Todd Friel, James White, Lordship (Probation) Teachers, Roman Catholics, Arminians, Mormons, Christadelphians, Oneness Pentecostals, Seventh Day Adventists, all have in common?
If you want to understand what it takes to be saved, and what gospels out there are ‘another’, then please take time to watch this very detailed video. I also highly recommend that people take time to jot passages down and look them up. Rich and replete with Scripture throughout. This would also be an excellent Bible study, and will help people understand the free gift of salvation. This will help others to discern and also know what is a false gospel.
FOLLOW-UP FROM PROCLAIM HIS WORD
Holly,
Thank you for providing some of the material presented in the video, your contribution was of immense help. Thank you also for your defense of the true Gospel of Grace, the church is under a relentless attack from the emissaries of Satan who are hell bent (literally) on perverting the Gospel, and taking as many people as possible, to the Lake of Fire– they must be confronted at every turn. God bless you sister, and thank you for the support.
In Christ,
Mark
Mark,
We praise God for brethren like you, who understand how important to mark and avoid these false brethren. It is unpalatable to many. They do not understand God’s Word on how we are to deal with this false doctrine and works gospel. You have a clarity in your documentaries I really appreciate. I wish I had been of more help, but let’s just say you didn’t need it. You did a wonderful job, and I was just amazed as I listened, it is just chock full of information and rich with His Word.
God bless your efforts, and strengthen you and your shield of faith, so that the fiery darts of the enemy will be quenched. In Christ is right! Holly
Mark S I would say that you’re still teaching a false gospel of Faith plus works when you teach that a person who has trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ and his death burial and Resurrection alone to save them and then at a later point they become an atheist and no longer trust the Lord Jesus Christ and his death burial and Resurrection alone to save them you say those people were never saved in the first place by quoting 1 John 2:19 which is a passage not written to Christians but to Jews who are going to have to go through the Great Tribulation where faith and works are involved in order to be saved because if they don’t resist the mark of the beast and they don’t resist worshiping is image they will commit the sin unto death 1st John 5:16 permanently losing their salvation Hebrews 6:4-8 Hebrews 10:26 Revelation 14:9-12 makes that clear
Tyler, I’m sorry, I haven’t read Mark S.’s comment to know what you are addressing, I will try later, but I disagree that 1 John is written to Jews. Once the church began (it was dedicated at the cross by the death of the testator – Heb 9, and sealed with the Spirit as believers were baptized into the church by the Holy Spirit -Acts 2; Rom 8:9, 1 Cor 12:13; Eph 4:4-6). There is no Jew or Greek in the church. We are all of the church or house of God. NO ONE has ever been justified by works, the just have ALWAYS lived by faith (Hab 2:4; Rom 1:17; Gal 3:11).
There is a difference between being saved eternally and being saved physically (he who endures to the end shall be saved). Again, eternal life has always been given by faith plus nothing.
NO ONE HAS EVER BEEN JUSTIFIED BY THE LAW (works). And it’s not going to change in the tribulation. The ‘sin unto death’ does not speak who eternal life, and Heb 6:4-8, does not speak to losing their salvation, please consider going here to read.
Does Heb 6:4-6 teach you can lose your salvation?
If you believe you can lose your salvation, you are teaching falsely. So many times you have commented here and I see over and over that you’re not understanding His Word in context as well as being influenced by several different types of doctrine (Arminianism and hyper or ultradispensationalism).
I pray you will stop being tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine, but we also won’t allow more like comments here. This one comment is allowed solely to show error and to correct by the Word of God.
You brought up Hebrews 10:26, you need to understand these Hebrew Christians were considering going back under the sacrifice. Read the WHOLE chapter, in fact the entire epistle, to understand that these were believers who were eternally secure, who had the Holy Spirit, but were considering trampling the Son of God underfoot, who would be counting His blood unholy and insulting the Spirit of Grace by going back to a sacrifice that NO LONGER REMAINED.
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there >>>remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.
If you would consider what the author told them about their condition ALREADY you might realize that this could not mean that they were going to lose their salvation.
10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: 12 but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; 13 from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. 14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
Did you catch that?
These believers were sanctified, therefore they were perfected FOREVER.
As for taking the mark of the beast, only unbelievers will willingly take it and worship the beast.
Please, study some more in the Word, humbling yourself under His mighty hand. Stop bouncing from youtube preacher to blog to blog to blog commenting on things you haven’t studied with His approval. You are heaping up teachers and being misled. You are to be sharply rebuked in the presence of all. Nothing I like to do, but you are teaching law.
Mary,
Well done guys, a job well done, it is being received by many in Australia. Gods clear plan of salvation is so easy to understand that even a child can get it.
I wish men would come with more fear and trembling when delivering the gospel, and not with wisdom of their words so that people’s faith would be in the power of God.
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. Rom 1:16-17
For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:17-18
And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man’s wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. 1 Cor 2:1-5
Ok, I am almost done this video but let me get this straight. The True gospel says salvation is through Christ alone, in faith alone, by Grace alone? Is that right? Ok, then yes, many questions have I. (Yoda voice, sorry) The first is….what about the Holy Spirit? How can you be saved without Holy Spirit? And what about the Word? Are those not required? I mean, if all your salvation depends on is faith in Christ alone, confessing that belief and you are good to go, than how do you know you heard or know the right things about Christ to correctly place your belief upon Him? Doesn’t that require reading of the Word? But isn’t reading of the Word works? I honestly hate this, I really, really do. Not the video, but the fact that this stuff, at least not for me, is not just cut and dried, plain and simple. This video says a lot of interesting, thought provoking stuff and truth be known, points out a few of my favorite preachers as false prophets. Yeah, I hate that. I totally trust that as I continue to dig and research this stuff that God will make much of it clear for me, but man, I am not there yet.
Hi Timothy, thanks for commenting and stopping by. The Word is the best place for our questions, of course the Holy Spirit is required, but He and and Christ, along with the Father are One. Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. The Word is very important, for how show they believe if they have not heard? We need to preach the gospel, that is the power of God unto salvation.
You ask some good questions, how do you know? Well, for me, he book of John and Romans was very helpful, of course understanding the divisions in Romans is important, but John, the purpose statement we see in John 20:31. (I wrote another blog here on the beloved disciple). The Word gives us assurance as we see and know that this is in fact what we believe, and our faith is in im alone, vs. works, that is what we are speaking of. Of course, we need His Word… It is the truth that washes, and sanctifies us (Eph 5:26, John 17:17).
It’s really important for us to spend time with the Lord, hearing His Word, the One thing that will not be taken from us (Luke 10:38-42). So we have to be looking at His Word with the intent of knowing it will help us if we want to know what He is showing us, and also take heed to it (Ps 119:9-11), memorize it for our help with sin. He will bring it to our remembrance. You know Jesus prayed for us to be sanctified by the Word (truth), so it’s important for us to abide in His Word as He said, this way we will be good disciples (learners, students) and we will also gain more freedom (truth will set us free). I am a student and don’t plan to quit, I know where to go, and that is really the entire answer. Once we’re His, we need to respect His Word (Is 66:2), love and treasure it (Ps 119:140,162), and study it with His approval in mind (2 Tim 2:15). Search it daily (Acts 17:11), meditate on it day and night. We need His Word for assurance, and also one real important thing. In Hebrews we are told our senses will be exercised by being in he strong meat of His Word and this helps us discern between good and evil (5:12-14). I hated finding out things about certain teachers I loved. Still do.. but, our job is to prove all things (1 Thess 5:21) by His Word, and test the Spirits (1 Jn 4:1) I trust if you are seeking Him in His Word, with a desire to do His will, you’ll know the doctrine whether it is of Him. I have not attained either 🙂 God bless you as you dig into His Word.
In Christ.
Here is the link if you’d like to read it. In Him,
https://redeemingmoments.com/2013/09/17/did-the-beloved-disciple-tell-the-truth/
14 What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food,
16 and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that?
17 So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
18 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe-and shudder!
20 Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up his son Isaac on the altar?
22 You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by his works;
23 and the Scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness”-and he was called a friend of God.
24 You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.
25 And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way?
26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from works is dead. James 2:14-26 (ESV)
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,
13 for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure.
Philippians 2:12-13 (ESV)
You speak foolishly about your brothers and sisters in Christ. You ignore passages such as these that show fruit is evidence of our faith. You condemn those who speak truth. Stop. Stop being so foolish. It is embarrassing to see someone who proclaims Christ bashing another brother who proclaims Christ as well. You love Christ. Good! Spend your time making disciples of all nations rather than trying to convince people that your brothers in Christ are pagans.
Austin, thank you for commenting, however, you are sharing passages that speak to people already identified by the Holy Spirit inspired Scriptures as believers. I agree that faith without works is useless to other men, it’s useless to non believers, it doesn’t rightly represent Christ. I’m sorry you are ’embarrassed’ however, we still must speak the truth in love regarding error. And we cannot know if another person is ‘making disciples of all the nations’.
Not sure what your comment means regarding “trying to convince people that your brothers in Christ are pagans.”
If we want to be noble in His sight, we must do as the Scriptures say, “These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.” Acts 17:11
The Scripture must be the final answer. God bless you to do the same.
Holly, let’s not forget a couple of things:
1) Yes, James was writing to believers. And works should accompany the saving faith they claim to have… or it is a false, “dead” faith.
2) The Bereans were unconverted Jews (still), and not Christians.
I am a Reformed Baptist, so you probably would put me in the same camp as the Bereans. I just don’t see what all the fuss is about here. We preach MONERGISM, which eliminates works of any kind in one’s salvation. I just don’t see how you can accuse us of adding anything to the simple gospel when God must “do it all” for us. We preach Christ and Him crucified, but the “complementarity of truth” requires that we call sinners to repentance… faith and repentance. Both must be granted by God (Acts 11:18; Phil. 1:29), so where do “works” come in?
Willy – I would respectfully disagree:
1) No, it is not a ‘false’ faith, it is a useless, non-working faith. Believers are believers and as James said had the Spirit dwelling in them. James 2 speaks to justification before men (testimony – maintaining good works – Titus 3:8), it does not speak to justification unto eternal life. But a lot of reformed and Catholic see this passage that way. But I suggest you look at when Abraham was justified before God eternally. Was it really when he offered up Isaac (Gen 22) as a foreshadowing of the Lamb that God would provide, or was Abraham justified before God when He believed Him regarding the gospel? (Gal 3:8; Gen 12:3)?
2) I would most definitely NOT put a reformed Baptist in the camp of the Bereans. Again respectfully, the Bereans were Noble, they searched the Word, AND they received the word with all readiness of mind..therefore many of them believed. NOT because they were regenerated in advance, believing a truth is not a ‘work’.
What is all the fuss about?
You may believe you have somehow elevated God’s Sovereignty and glory by thinking you do not add or take away from man’s responsibility to BELIEVE. There is an attack going on regarding what man must do and has been told to do over and over by the Lord in His Word, and that is believe.. If that ‘belief’ is bestowed on man by God, than Jesus has been dishonest when He said, you WILL NOT come to me that you might have life. Jesus was dishonest by your teachings, in saying you WILL NOT believe.
I mean you no offense, but I will not give you more time on my page to preach. If you have an honest question, possibly.
Willy, you continue to preach MONERGISM – as tragically you said you do, and you do it at not only your own peril, but the lives of others.
I will continue to preach Christ and Him Crucified, without wisdom of men’s words or excellency of speech (1 Cor 2:1-5).
Great job giving all the Scriptures Austin instead of perverting God’s clear Word by this false Doctrine video of grace. We are saved by God’s grace through faith and faith without action is dead! This False Doctrine of grace is actually ANOTHER GOSPEL that is condemned by God’s true Word. It is also a great way to sin for free with your “Grace License to Sin Card.”
Dane, you might want to read John 7:24. Judge with a righteous judgment. There is nothing false about this video, the gospel is clearly spelled out in 1 Cor 15:3-4. You might want to be careful that you are not bewitched, or that you have understood the gospel yourself friend. Jesus has taken our sin out of the way, and nailed it to His cross.
What about you? Have you understood that what Christ did, what He offers is free to us? Nothing we can do can merit our salvation. Be sure you understand His grace, and His gospel. If you backload the gospel, it’s the same thing as front loading it. Any burden of works added to the gospel, is still another gospel. Praying you might see that.
Dane, you said: This False Doctrine of grace is actually ANOTHER GOSPEL that is condemned by God’s true Word.
My comment: Dane, the gospel of grace is the only gospel.
John 1:14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
If one never comes to the point of accepting grace, he has never come to the point of accepting Christ.
Austin,
You have spoken foolishly in this response of yours, and have also shown a lack of understanding concerning what James is speaking about. The “evidence” of our salvation is NOT fruit as you lordshippers like to say, but BELIEF in the Gospel that we once despised and rejected! John 6:29.
Tell me—how much fruit must I produce in order for me to know that I am saved? What is the bare minimum required by God?
Your position, along with those of MacArthur, Washer, Piper, Graham, Conway, Sproul, Chan, Idleman, Warren, et al, is no different from that of Rome’s, and all one has to do is read the book “Not By Faith Alone”, by Roman Catholic apologist Robert Sungenis, to see that very fact. Sungenis make clear that what MacArthur teaches in his book “The Gospel According To Jesus”, is what Rome has been preaching for centuries, and just like MacArthur and all his lordship cronies, Rome redefines the word “faith”, to also include “works”, and for that, MacArthur has been roundly condemned by many, even by his Calvinist brethren like the late John Robbins, who shredded him in his review of his book.
Romans 3:21-5:21 and Galatians chapters 1-4, deals with how a sinner is Justified in the eyes of a Holy and Righteous God, and Paul makes clear that it is by Faith Alone, apart from any works, see Romans 3:21-28, 4:5, 5:1, 10:4, 11:6, Galatians 2:16, 3:6, 10-14, etc.
How much clearer can Scripture be? It has always been by Faith Alone, and we see that going all the way back to Abraham in Genesis 15:6 (Gal 3:6). James then cannot be contradicting what Paul has stated so clearly, so he must be speaking about something else, and as Holly has made clear, James’ entire point in chapter 2, deals with our justification before men—nothing is said about the finished work of Christ on the cross and His bodily resurrection from the grave…nothing at all. Also, James uses the words “brother” and “brethren” over nineteen times in the Book, so he is clearly not addressing unbelievers, but believers—see ch 1:2.
I do not condemn anyone, but they condemn themselves with their false gospel messages—there is no truth in what they say concerning how sinners are Justified in the eyes of God—they are preaching Faith+Works which is an accursed gospel.
It is also embarrassing to see someone like yourself defend those men and their horrendous teachings, because it tells me that you have no clue as to what the true Gospel is—you’re just as blind as they are!
Finally, like a watchman on the wall, my job is to warn the sheep of false teachers who have crept into our midst— all the men mentioned above are wolves in sheep’s clothing, and rather than pointing sinners to the simplicity of the Gospel, they have loaded men down with burdens that they themselves cannot carry, and they make the path as difficult as possible for people to find. May God have mercy on them for what they are doing, and I will NEVER apologize for exposing those who are preaching another jesus, another spirit and another gospel.
well lordship salvation is a false teaching and it does need to be opposed…fruit is doctrine….so you’ll know them by their doctrine IE fruit…..also no such thing as progressive sanctification…the flesh isn’t being conformed to the image of Christ….we grow in grace and truth the bible teaches…our flesh stays wicked and evil…yeah grace does affect our conduct and behavior often with spiritual growth…but the bible also doesn’t teach the flesh is ever good or gets better..nothing good dwells in the flesh and that’s a biblical truth…the flesh doesn’t become perfected…
Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
the being conformed to the image of Christ is spiritual growth and learning the deep things of God which are all centered around Christ and his finished work….seeing the gospel from genesis to revelation…seeing Christ in every book, chapter, page etc..spiritual discernment, being able to more effectively teach grace and proclaim the gospel…that’s the being conformed part…the flesh doesn’t get conformed to the image of Christ…the flesh is perishing the bible says, the flesh is dead because of sin the bible says, nothing good dwells in the flesh the bible says…we’re to reckon ourselves dead to the flesh the bible says…it doesn’t say try to perfect your flesh.
Alexander, true, nothing good in our flesh dwells. I think on the disciples, all clean but one. But Jesus washed their feet, as a show (at least I see it that way) of the sanctifying work He does practically in our lives. Progressive is probably not a good word, for we are already sanctified once, perfected forever (Heb 10:10,14), Christ is our sanctification (1 Cor 1:30-31).
For someone who seems to know their bible so much. You should also know that “Judge not judge others and you will not be judged” Matthew 1. Read Matthew 7 1-6. You should also read the entire chapter of Romans 2. It talks all about this kind of stuff you claim is “false teaching”. You should really be careful spreading this kind of stuff about pastors and teachers, it’s Gods place to be saying who’s going to hell and not you. Matthew 7 3 “why worry about the speck in your friends eye, when you have a log in your own”. But as I said you should read Matthew 7 1-6. You are right that being a “good” person didn’t get you to heaven, believing has a huge roll in that, without it, we cannot go to heaven. But keep in mind that satan also believes in God, very much so
Elie, thank you for your response and for joining me today. Jesus tells us in John 7:24 to judge with a righteous judgment, and not according to the appearance. Romans 2 speaks about us not judging for the very thing we are doing. I believe I’m doing my best (with His help) to follow His Word and tremble at it with respect (Isaiah 66:2).
Believing upon the Lord Jesus Christ as our Savior, and Him crucified for us, is the only way we will get to the Father. Satan does not believe on Jesus as his Savior and cannot, however, Jesus is Satan’s Lord, He is Lord over all. This is not about believing that God is real, but about trusting that Jesus Christ gave Himself, died on the cross for our sin. Our sin caused a separation from God, one that would last forever if not for His grace. God SO loved the world, (His part), that He gave His only begotten Son (again, His part), that whosoever believeth on Him (that would be our part), should not perish (His part), but have everlasting life (His part).
God has done all the work, He asks that we believe upon Jesus for our salvation. And to believe upon Jesus and Him crucified alone. I pray that if you do not know that it is all His work, and you cannot add any work of your own, that you’ll ask more questions. May God be glorified here. Bless His Holy Name. God bless you to see His truth over anyone else’s teaching. In Jesus Christ eternally <3
I came out of a Church of “Christ” so I would like to mention them as well.
As far as all the confusion about false “dead” faith. Think of it this way, when a dog dies it was STILL a dog it’s simply no longer able to do anything cause its dead. Simply put this is a call for believers to have an active faith. Its not saying it was a “false” faith. It says “dead” faith. Saying the faith in this passage is false is adding something to the passage thats simply not there. Hope this helps. 🙂
Amen Bobbie Jo, It is a call for believers to have an active faith, and if people would just realize that faith comes by hearing the Word, they’d have a good start. Then if they are remembering that when they abide in Him that they will bear fruit, maybe they’ll spend more time with Him and looking towards Him instead of themselves to ‘do’, but to cooperate to submit and spend time with Him, for apart from Him we can do nothing.
Yes that helps 🙂
I absolutely loved this video! Great job, Mark!!! Thank you, brother. It has helped me tremendously especially after being exposed to Lordship Salvation through a “Church of Christ.” How incredibly sad. I made our Father into a dictator that would send me to hell without Him for breaking the law. I’ll never forget the pastor’s wife there. Her face always looked so full of stress. It seemed she never smiled. I was happy as could be until my life started falling apart with sin after sin after sin. The harder I tried to keep from sinning the more it was happening. I screamed at God asking why I couldn’t do it and why I was defective. But, that IS the point! In a way I AM defective! I have sinful flesh and I can’t save myself. I’ll sin till I leave this world and am transformed. Our loving Father allowed my life to fall completely apart so I could see there was no hope for me. Nothing I did or could do would ever be enough. He led me to His Gospel of true salvation and I’m forever grateful for all He allowed to happen to me cause I may have suffered greatly here on earth but my soul has forver been saved by the most incredible Father ever. All praise and glory to the Lord!!!!
Isn’t that so true? When the commandment (law) is brought back into our lives, sin revives. We fail and get worse and worse, and we’re trying to clean ourselves up with filthy rags. I am with you on that one, I got worse and worse, but once I figured the best thing was to stay close to Him, when I slip, I try to get right back close to the Vine, and close to the Word. Best thing we can do, as He completes the work in us, He is the One who keeps us, and He is the One that works in us. I’m with you, All praise, glory and honor belong to Him…
Mark does do a good job, you can find him on youtube. <3
Bobbie Joe,
what’s the saying????
When one hits “rock” bottom, it is then when they usually find “The Rock”.
Psalms 18:46
The LORD lives, and blessed be my rock; And exalted be the God of my salvation
Yes Preston, either one falls on that Stone (Rock) or it will fall on them….
That happened to me,too.
Amen, Preston and Holly! So very true. Just like with anything. As sinful humans we always seem to realize how bad our situations are only AFTER we have fallen completely down. Unfortunately not everyone sees it and anger takes over. I’m glad the Lord has humbled me and brought me, literally at times, to my knees. He has brought me to tears. He has brought me to laughter. He has brought me joy. To all this I give Him the credit. All the good I do would be Him working through me. Until I saw salvation for what it truly was I was always missing something. No where I heard His Word preached satisfied me. Now I know why. I was given another Jesus. Another gospel.
I thank God for all of you. My dear brothers and sisters. Without you all to give me fellowship I would have none. Praise God for His guidance. 🙂
Bobbie Jo, yes…after we have completely fallen down. I was beat, unable to do much more than barely survive, I think of this verse in Psalm 139:8.
If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
I know what you mean, the gospels, the preaching of the Word, the lack of fellowship with others. I prayed for Christian friends, and He started to add these things after I was seeking Him first. I am so with you Bobbie Jo. I thank God for all of you <3
For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 15 of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, that he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; that Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; and to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen. Eph 3:14-21
The reason i share this video with yiu is because i love you and dont want people to be lead astray. Please watch this video. Grace is free, but it is also freeing! Go and sin no more, but live in God’s grace, by God’s grace.
You are sadly mistaken if you heed the gospel on this blog but do not actually read what implications the gospel has on a true believers life. If you have accepted grace, it will change you.
Secondly, many of the false prophets and religions you’ve described are accurate. But if you think that david platt and others are the false gospel, then please reconsider. What has accepting Christ is your life done to you? Are you free?
Please watch this video the whole way through. God is full of grace and we are saved by grace alone. May my life be a reflection of the love you have lavished on me. Praise the Lord.
(link removed by administrator)
Another Jesus, we have heard your false gospel before: “No Jesus, no change! No change no Jesus!”
You should stop pushing this heresy altogether and immediately. In any event, it is not welcome here.
Well then, read the Bible and see what Jesus has to say about it. It’s pointless to agree with part of the Bible and ignore the rest. If you don’t think the Gospel changes people’s lives (consider everyone who becomes a believer in the new testament!) then why believe? ….So you can go to heaven? If that is the case, then you misunderstand heaven. The purpose of heaven is to eternally worship a holy, loving, perfect God of everything. If you’re in it for the selfish intention of securing an afterlife that is not in hell, but have no interest in spending each and every second of eternity worshiping Jesus, then why would a perfect, holy, and loving God want you to be there with him? Because he is living you say? Ah, yes. OF COURSE HE IS LOVING! GOD IS LOVE! He sent his son to DIE for you and me! How incredible! Amen. So then, what does the Bible says about people who realize God’s love and chose to believe in him? Well, they are saved, by faith (and faith alone, so that no one may boast)! We are only justified by faith because there is absolutely NOTHING we can do that could possibly earn our way into heaven! And how can we express our love for the grace that was shown to us? By exhibiting the love, grace, and holiness of God on ourselves (not perfectly…because we are imperfect human beings incapable of this..but we try anyway. Knowing full well that this does not change God’s love for us, but rather because we understand how expensive his lavish grace was and is…HE DIED FOR YOU! THAT’S EXPENSIVE. BUT IT’S ALSO FREE. and that’s why is it grace. But understanding the full weight out our sin, and realizing his great sacrifice for us, we cannot help but glorify him through our lives. Read Peter, James, and well, I suppose everything else in the Bible (lol) to understand this. I won’t quote specific verses because I want you to do the searching yourselves. Because as you read the Bible and pray, God will change you. As you draw near to Him, he will change you. How amazing is that?
(Also, thank you to the administer for removing the link to the video. Just in case he gets this far and choses to delete more things…but maybe he wont….here’s what you can search in youtube: freed by grace by David platt.<<(Holly: lordship teacher, mark and avoid)
So good. The Bible preached here very well.
I pray that 2nd Peter 3:9 is true for the people who reads this.
Jesus likes to put it simple: Repent of your sins, for the Kingdom of God is near.
(Holly: No where does the Bible say ‘repent of your sins’, but people add this to God’s Word and they will be rebuked and found a liar – Prov 30:6)
Another Jesus, please trust me when I say that your position that life change is automatic in the life of a believer has been put forth here by others before you.
Like I said before, we reject that as unbiblical. And I will repeat, THAT TEACHING IS NOT WELCOME HERE! You are not here to learn, you are here to contradict. I will not be answering you further.
The false teaching that life change/works are automatic and inevitable in the life of the believer could easily cause a non-believer to misunderstand the gospel and think it is about allowing Jesus to change his life, instead of believing that Jesus took away all of his sins. In this way, such teaching keeps people lost.
In addition, such teaching may cause believers to try to look to their works and life change for assurance of salvation, and therefore try to finish in the flesh. It also ruins their Christian testimony, if their life change in any way becomes the focus.
You said: If you’re in it for the selfish intention of securing an afterlife that is not in hell, but have no interest in spending each and every second of eternity worshiping Jesus, then why would a perfect, holy, and loving God want you to be there with him?
My comment: Our motive in believing is not at issue. If someone wants to believe for the “selfish intention of securing an afterlife that is not in hell,” why would that prevent him from believing?
After, all, the real Jesus once said: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Please note that He started with “should not perish.”
You said: I pray that 2nd Peter 3:9 is true for the people who reads this.
My comment: 2nd Peter 3:9 is true for EVERYBODY in the human race who is alive today, not just those who read this.
2 Peter 3:9: The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
You said: Jesus likes to put it simple: Repent of your sins, for the Kingdom of God is near.
My comment: I can’t find in my Bible where Jesus ever said this. You are reading from a Lordship “salvation” – oriented translation that distorts the true meaning of this, and many other verses.
The King James Bible says it this way:
Matthew 4:17: From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
You might like Ron Shea’s explanation of both of the verses that you referenced, linked below:
http://old.cleargospel.org/topics.php?t_id=27&c_id=208
http://old.cleargospel.org/topics.php?t_id=27&c_id=247
Another Jesus, I am no longer reading your comments, nor will I approve them to be posted.
I don’t want to drink your poison, and I don’t want to feed it to anyone else.
I am reasonably sure your intentions are good, but that does not change the fact that you are teaching error.
What about every tree that do not bring forth good fruit will be cut down and cast into the fire?
Is not the fruit of the Spirit love?
Since when did love become something passive? Is not the nature of love in itself something that drives you to act out of the love for others? Is it not the love for sin that is the reason why people like to sin? Jesus came to save us from our sins not save us in our sins.
And when we believe we become filled with the Holy Spirit and the Spirit produces love with in our heart! The Bible says that if we do not have love in our heart we have nothing.
I do not know about you, but i love my wife and my kids and that love in itself forces me to take care of them in the best way i’m capable. I just do it with joy because i love them and it comes from the heart.
And the fruit of the Spirit is love, not works, but if you love you act. Love can never be passive because its not within the nature of love. Real love loves truth and finds no joy in unrighteousness and it hates all that is evil.
That’s the kind of love the Spirit produces in the heart of a believers. If you do not have love you do not have the Spirit either. So you tell me, how do you define love? Real love is defined in 1 Cor 13 or 14 if i remember right!
That is the kind of fruit every good tree brings forth but every bad tree will be cut down.
Jesus told us that if we love him we keep his commandments. He also said that not every one that calls him lord lord will enter into the kingdom of heaven but those that do the will of his father.
And the bible says that whosoever will confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in their heart that he rose from the dead shall be saved.
John said that we know that we have come to know him when we keep his commandments.
If we love him we keep them and if we do not keep them the problem is that we do not love him. We can never start with keeping them to love him. Everything starts with love first.
Paul said let anyone that preach another gospel be accursed. Accursed is translated from the greek word Anathema which means damnd to destruction.
But Paul is also the one that said let those that DO NOT LOVE our lord jesus christ be Anathema. Same thing as preaching a false gospel.
Kind of strong words don’t you think? Love seems to be something pretty important. Or is the word of God wrong about that?
It makes a hugh difference if we comes to Jesus brcause of what he has to offer or because of who he is. Our Lord!
Read about the ten lepers, ten was physical healed only one was thankful and remembered the giver and came back. The others walked their way because they received what they were after but it was not Christ only what he could do for them. The one that returned did so out of thankfulness and love for the Lord who had granted him that gift. Love made him turn around and walk back. If we love the gift more than the giver we have probably not yet come to know Him.
Love is very important!
Aron, the “fruit” referred to in Matthew 7:19 is not the fruit of the Spirit referred to in Galatians 5. The context is critical.
If you are looking to your “fruit” for evidence of salvation, you must look at ALL of it. Is your life perfect? The Bible says that a good tree cannot produce corrupt fruit. Do you ever do anything wrong? You must be perfect to get into heaven. My guess is that your behavior is not perfect. So, how good is good enough?
Following is a great explanation of this from Preston Greene:
With reason and scripture we can conclude that fruits of the Spirit are not evidence of salvation. If the unsaved can do them without the Holy Spirit and saved people can all but ignore them, why do the religious insist it is mandatory that they should be exhibited? Because that’s what the “religious” do. Their mantra of “do” for salvation exceeds Jesus’s “done”. What about Matthew 7:15-20 and John 15:6?
Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down,and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. (Matthew 7:15-20).
From a first look at this passage, it appears that if one does not produce fruit, he or she is going to hell. First, this passage is about false prophets (verse 15), not the born again believer. Verse 16 reads, “You will know them (false prophets) by their fruits.” Well, this is not referring to fruits of the Spirit, as Satan presents himself as an angel of light. Notice verse 18: “a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit”. Do you sin? Then guess what, you are not a good tree. The only good tree is Jesus. Jesus said, “Why callest me thou good? There is none good but God” (Luke 18:19). Then we get to verse 20, which reads, “Wherefore by their fruits you will know them.” Well, if false apostles transform themselves into apostles of Christ and Satan presents himself as an angel of light, what does “fruit” mean? The answer is in Luke, which talks about the SAME thing.
For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes. A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart HIS MOUTH SPEAKETH. (Luke 6:43-45)
This is what fruit means in this passage. It is doctrine and what that doctrine produces (fruit). There are only two ways to see false prophets. One, if they prophesy something and it does not come to pass then they are not from God (Duet 18:22). The second area is “what is coming out of their mouths”. If you study your Bible and learn, you can tell someone is false by the words they speak. Bad doctrine, or false doctrine, will not produce for the kingdom. For example, what type of fruit were the Pharisees producing? What does Scripture teach us?
“Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves” (Matt 23:15).
Their fruit was to proclaim salvation by the works of the law to their disciples, to root their disciples in that doctrine that they became more a child of hell then their teachers! This was the “fruit” of the Pharisees (ClearGospel.org). As a result, we need to abide in Jesus (correct doctrine) to produce fruit (converts) for the kingdom.
The reason why I am commenting is because I believe the premise of your argument is incorrect. We are saved by grace alone, through faith – yes! But then this is accompanied by the Holy Spirit which convicts us of sin and leads us in righteousness. Works are not required, but an overflow of the heart change we experience.
With love in Christ.
Jen, if good works WILL happen, then they MUST happen. Therefore, no one could ever have assurance of his/her salvation without looking to see if the works are there.
The Bible says we can know we have eternal life, apart from any works.
I am sorry you don’t accept the premise. But, we have discussed this sufficiently, with biblical support, that you should understand this.
Whether or not you accept (believe) the premise is up to you.
It seems as though your ideas are not backed up by the Bible though. You can most definitely look to the Bible to help answer this. There are two important tests in Scripture for a person to determine whether or not he or she is a true believer.
There is first of all an objective test, which asks, “Do I believe?” Ask yourself if you affirm the Scripture’s record of the person and work of Jesus Christ. Do you believe that He is God manifest in the flesh? Do you believe that God saves sinners solely through the merits of Jesus Christ’s obedient life and substitutionary death on the cross? You have this part down correctly. The second kind of tests are what you have overlooked.
Second is the subjective or experiential test of assurance in which you ask yourself, “Is my faith real?” The apostle John’s purpose in writing the epistle of 1 John was to give true believers assurance of their salvation (1 John 5:13). In that small epistle John gives several marks to distinguish a true believer.
True believers walk in the light (1 John 1:6-7). The light here means both intellectual and moral truth. Ask, “Do I affirm the truths of Scripture, and desire to obey them?”
True believers confess their sin (1:8-2:1) Confess here doesn’t mean to recite every wrong that we have ever done. Rather, it means to agree with God about our sin. That means that true believers hate their sin; they don’t love it. They acknowledge they are sinful, and yet they know they are forgiven.
True believers keep His commandments (2:3-4; 5:2-3). The term here refers to a watchful, observant obedience. Here the believer desires to obey truths he deems precious. It involves a proactive approach to obedience-the Christian studies Scripture in order to understand and obey it.
True believers love the brethren (2:9-11; 3:10, 14-15; 5:2). Ask yourself the question, “Do I love God’s people and desire to be around them?”
True believers affirm sound doctrine (2:20-23; 4:2,6). John here teaches that no true believer will fall into any serious, Christ-denying error or heresy.
True believers follow after holiness (2:29; 3:3-4, 6-9). These verses certainly aren’t talking about sinless perfection, or even the frequency or duration of sin. The term sin in these verses describes one who lives an immoral, ungodly, unrighteous life as a matter of continual practice, and carries the attitude of hardened hate for God’s righteousness.
True believers have the Holy Spirit (4:13; 5:10-11). This is an over-arching test summing up all the others. Is there evidence that the fruit of the Spirit is present in your life (Galatians 5:22-23)?
In summary, one’s assurance of salvation does not need to be based on a past decision or an experience. It should rest first of all on one’s faith in the objective truth of God’s Word, Jesus Christ, and the gospel. Secondly, it should rest on the reality of a changed life marked by obedience, a love for Christ and His righteousness, and a hatred for sin. Take heart if these things are true in your life, and trust God to continue to work out His salvation in your life.
Jen, the book of 1 John is not to be used as a “test of life” to determine whether or not one has eternal life.
You said: In summary, one’s assurance of salvation does not need to be based on a past decision or an experience. It should rest first of all on one’s faith in the objective truth of God’s Word, Jesus Christ, and the gospel. Secondly, it should rest on the reality of a changed life marked by obedience, a love for Christ and His righteousness, and a hatred for sin.
My comment: This is self-contradictory. If one’s assurance can REST on the objective truth of God’s Word, Jesus Christ, and the gospel, it need not look for rest in the “reality of a changed life marked by obedience, a love for Christ and His righteousness, and a hatred for sin.”
If one is really resting in Christ, he would not need, or seek, additional assurance from himself. Are you really resting in Christ, Jen, or are you resting in Christ plus you?
You said: True believers affirm sound doctrine (2:20-23; 4:2,6). John here teaches that no true believer will fall into any serious, Christ-denying error or heresy.
My comment: I hope, for your sake, this isn’t the case. You are teaching serious, heretical error.
I will not answer you further, nor post additional comments by you in which you repeat your position. Meanwhile, I would invite you to read an article entitled “A Test for Eternal Salvation (Or, How Can We Tell Who is Really Saved?),” linked below:
http://expreacherman.com/2015/10/04/a-test-for-eternal-salvation-or-how-can-we-tell-who-is-really-saved/
People who really understand the gospel will know the answers to the questions on this test. The answers will not fit the narrative that you posted above.
Johniinc, Evidently Jen and John Morton (another Jesus) are coming from the same liberal arts college IP address (evangelical Lutheran). I agree with you on not posting additional comments. Sorry I have been unavailable.
I just wish I new what to do please pray for ,with all of this going on should i just stay home and read my bible and pray.
John, praying for your peace, definitely stay in His Word, it is our armor, our weapon.
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. Rom 15:4
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. 2 Tim 1:7
Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; and your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints. Eph 6:10-18
Since sin in its essence is “Doing my own will” is not repentance a turning from sin to Christ in some sense no matter how you put it? Since when you start to believe you go actually surrender to God’s will and say “Your will be done not mine”. I see people say that repent only means a change of mind and then goes on to say that you must repent from dead works and unbelief onto faith in Christ alone. But is not dead works and unbelief in itself sin? So they seem to contradict themselves and end up in a logical fallicy!
If i have a change of mind about the direction i’m walking then i turn from it and walk another direction. The change of mind were followed by a change in my actions, completely logical is it not? So easy a fool can understand.
In Romans we can read that whosoever confess with there mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in their hearts that he rose from the dead shall be saved.
Jesus said that not all that calls him lord lord will enter the kingdom of heaven but those that do the will of his Father.
He also said why do you call me lord lord and do not do what i say?
Jesus said if you love me you keep my commandments. And that means that we need to love him in order to keep them not keep them to show our love for him. So if we do not keep them the problem is that we do not love him.
John said that we know that we have come to know him when we keep his commandments.
Jesus is Lord of all and to believe in him is to believe that he is the Messiah, which in its essence means that he is King and Lord! Messiah means anointed, and all the kings in the old testament were called messiah. Jesus is the real King and therefor he is also the saviour. He is the Messiah, God’s anointed, and in the OT you were anointed to be king, and therefor all the kings also were called messiah but hade the promise that the real Messiah would come. It all goes back to when the people of Israel demanded a king just like the heathens and God told Samuel to do as they demanded because it was God they forsaked by doing so. So Jesus have always been the one that is rightfully king. He came as a servent and their king but they did not recognize him even when they crowned him and he was lifted up on the cross with even a sign saying the truth above his head, Jesus of Nazareth King of the Jews. They forsake him a second time. So if you believe in Jesus you also believe in who he is and that he is the Lord! And its quite logical that we are supposed to obey Him if he is our Lord. He is Lord and because of that he is also the saviour. Either way you believe in Jesus and who he is, our Lord, and if you believe in him as Lord you do as he command. Jesus is not just a saviour but he is Lord and to believe in him is to recive him as such! Either way you have him as Lord and saviour or no saviour at all. So i really do not understand this “Lordship” contreversy. You can’t make Jesus Lord he is already Lord of all. We can’t serve two masters, and we serve the master we listen to and do the will of, either Jesus or Satan. Bible seems to be very clear about there being no neutral ground.
When we believe we surrender ourselves to the will of God and acknowledge his Lordship even if we do not understand the fullness of that the moment we start to believe. Just as you may not understand what it means to join the army and that you will answer under a officer, you are still part of the army, but sooner or later you will find out the fullness of what that means. We may not understand everything at the beginning. But that Jesus is Lord is part of the Gospel and Paul says it right out that whosoever confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord…
I really don’t see how those guys are false. Every tree that does not bring forth good fruit will be cut down and cast into the fire. The fruit of the Spirit is love, and love is not passive but drives people to act. I love my wife and kids therefor love forces me to act in itself to do my best to take care of them out of love, it comes naturally from the heart.
Paul says let those that preach a false gospel be Anathema/accursed which means damned to destruction.
But Paul also said that let those that do not love our Lord Jesus Christ be Anathema too. And Jesus said that those that love him keeps his commandments. And the commandments are to love the Lord thy God with all your heart and love your neighbor as thyself. And love is not a passive thing. Love is the fruit of the Spirit that testifies that we are of God. So faith in Christ leads us to act by itself because the Spirit start to live inside every believer and it produces the fruit of love. And someone that experienced true love knows that love is not a passive thing, it will drive you to do good works and what’s right towards God and the people around you, and it comes from your heart because its something God puts there and not of your own doing.
Love is everything and that comes like a mail to your inbox when you believe and becomes filled with the holy spirit! God is a living God and the most powerful being that exists, so he will affect our lives if we truley believe in him, and he will make sure that we produce fruit which is love and love is not a passive thing.
So i really do not understand how these guys are false, not heard them so much though. But i know that when you start to believe it changes your heart and you grow in love everyday that you walk with the Lord. The bible never states how much fruit a believer must have but it states that if there is none good fruit the tree will be cut down. Some believer may only have a small amout of fruit. But they will have it if they are a true believer. Faith leads to love and love in itself acts. It will force you to good works. Because with love in your heart you can’t standby just watching those that you love, it drives you to do your best for those that you love. You may not be perfect all the time but love makes you act and care for people. So i really do not get why these guys are false some of them seems just to have a deeper understanding what it means to believe. We are not saved because of our knowledge or understanding though, but because we believe and when we believe God does amazing things in the heart of every believer. And those that disobey he will chasten back into obedience. That is also a sign that we are real sons of the most high, he chasten ever son he loves just like any father but if we do not become chasten by him we are no real sons but bastards. So God is mighty and he works with every believer. I just understand that those guys believe in a living and powerful God that changes the heart of all those people that believe in him. Which the Bible also says. If i didn’t miss something ofc since i haven’t listened to them so much.
But i do know some really obvious wolfs and its all those word of faith preachers, many of them preach gnosticism and occult teachings like the law of attraction and a corruption of what biblical faith is.
Ever heard the phrase “Do not touch God’s anointed” that these guys always says to their defense? Its ironic because its taken out of context from were David sneaks into the cave were Saul sleeps and cuts off a piece of his cape. David’s men wants him to kill Saul but he doesn’t want to touch God’s anointed, which means he would not lay his hand upon him and kill him. But when Saul wakes up David rebukes him and say that God will judge between them and vengange David for the unrighteousness Saul have done to him. The thing is that the word used for anointed in the original text were David say that he will not touch God’s anointed is messiah. And in Matthew 24 Jesus says that in the last days “Many false prophet will come in my name saying: I am christ/messiah (anointed).” Christ or Kristos is just greek for anointed. And they all claim they are anointed with in the WoF movement. And the last days have been here for 2000 years now according to the Bible…
Aron, with all due respect, do you ever still sin?
If yes, then you haven’t turned from your sins.
Please consider reading the gospel presentation linked below.
http://www.cleargospel.org/wp-content/uploads/English-Display-Pkg-2014.pdf