Bill Johnson, Jesus Culture and Bethel Church
Bill Johnson’s Bethel Church is at it again. This time they’re now introducing us to more mystical (and forbidden things) like Tarot cards. Read more at link I provide Directly below.
Lord, thank You for the visitors who come each day. Many hostile to what has been shared here. I pray that You would move them to prayerfully and carefully examine the evidence here, against the truth of Your Word. I pray we all will do that in all things. Please touch their conscience regarding whether they are seeking You, or signs and wonders. I pray that they will also consider whether they have been told of You in truth. That they will read before defending this man, the things he says of you that are lies preaching another Jesus.
In Your Son’s name Jesus, that precious name above all names, may all the glory be Yours.
Please also pray for our President and leaders, as many of these are seeking to influence him and others in power. And as President, they usually receive all these mega-pastors for an audience. Pray for godly men and women to surround him and teach him about the truth of God’s Word and bring the true gospel.
UPDATE 12-15-17
I am not going to start a new article, just share an update one of the latest most shocking revelations of these people who do the most outrageous things contrary to Scripture, and yet some of their followers will still defend them vehemently.
The Facebook Group, Bethel Church and Christianity
They posted a “Christian tarot cards” article. This is just down right disturbing in many ways. The fact that Bethel has now given their stamp of approval on this unBiblical demonic stuff is really telling. Although, I guess this really shouldn’t surprise us, they peddle New Age heresies all the time. Share these posts with everyone and lovingly warn them to flee them!
You can see the rest of the article here:
What is the good news, the gospel?
Links below may provide quotes of the individuals, if you see names linked in the red colors.
CHALLENGE: Go to Bethel Redding, find their GOSPEL. What must you do to be saved? Can you find it? Please post it in the comments section (I have yet to have someone from Bethel do this, although I have gotten a lot of abusive comments I do not post.
In the meantime, if you would like to know what the Gospel (Good news is), please click here.
A move of God? Or a lie? Do they Preach Another Jesus?
But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. 2 Cor 11:12-15
Bethel Church, Redding, CA, co-‘pastored’ by wife Beni, and ‘prophet’ and pastor Kris Vallaton
Jesus Culture (a ministry of Bethel Church)11
Bethel’s School of Supernatural Ministry22, 25
Known for: Word of Faith (WOF), Name it and claim it, New Apostolic Reformation (NAR, Third wave movement), Dominionism, Joel’s Army, Latter Rain, Modern day Prophets and apostles, Manifest Sons of God (MSoG), Signs and wonders such as the ‘glory cloud’8 and ‘gold angel dust’9,10, feathers falling, gems appearing, conjuring angel orbs18, fire tunnels, spirit travel, out-of-body experiences18, ‘healings’ (says those who preach God allows sickness is a different gospel1). Prophecy, Portal travel (new-age & satanic)18, extra-biblical revelation, raising the dead7,15, charismatic, praying in tongues, soaking, new wine movement, drunken glory, visualization, laughing movement. Contemplative meditative practices such as chanting, soaking etc. taught in their school’s SOZO class. Wife Beni uses tuning forks as a “prophetic act”, and also believes she is called to the ‘prophetic act of waking up angels’. (Since when do angels need awakened?) She says one of her friends ‘gets pretty wacked’ when the angels are around. 19
Associations (either at his church, or hosting events together): Dominionist C. Peter Wagner23 calls Johnson an Apostle25. Johnson Frequently speaks at the “Voice of the Apostles” conference. Lakeland Revival6, Toronto Blessing. Apostle/Prophet Chuck Pierce, Mike Bickle, Tattooed Healer Todd Bentley(Publicly endorsed 2011)6, Rick Joyner, IHOP, another false Prophet – Bob Jones, Supposed Prophetess Patricia King (Xtreme Prophetic); Heidi Baker, John and Carol Arnott, Georgian and Winnie Banov, Randy Clarke20, John Crowder (toking the Holy Ghost prophet) Revival Alliance, Reinhard Bonnke, Cindy Jacobs, Lou Engle, Prophet Kris Vallaton, Lance Wallnau and the Seven Mountain Mandate. They are ‘change agents’ to bring about Christ’s Kingdom on earth. (Christ will come without their help, and it will not get better, it will get wors
BILL JOHNSON PUT TODD BENTLEY BACK INTO HIS POSITION
(Not sure what position he is – along with other profits, and apostlesses, after he abandoned his wife and children and married his mistress.)
Link to testimony of one delivered from Bethel ‘cult’. She points out how there is the manifestation we see on the videos of the jerking, laughing, convulsing, shaking etc., but also terms such as “being whacked by God – get whacked – stay whacked – never go back”, “get activated in the spirit/prophetic” and “hosting the presence” (occult is big on ‘the presence). Another testimony.
Todd is a self-proclaimed prophet and signs and wonders fellow like Bill Johnson. They both seem to miss the obvious irony of a ‘healer’ not being healed. (He and his wife both wear glasses, has had surgeries, son is deaf, etc.) If Jesus gave us these examples and said we would do greater miracles than Him, why is Bill or Beni Johnson not able? Or for that matter, any of his other ‘friends’ that are ‘healers’. Not one able? Please, ask yourself why.
The miracles also seem to manifest only at convenient times, with large crowds and obvious special effects of things like smoke and gold glitter.
Bill Johnson teaches Jesus was born again
Bill Johnson asks,
“Did you know Jesus was born again? I asked the first service, and they said, “no”, but I’ll show you it’s in the Bible. He had to be, He became sin.” T. 3:48-4:55 of this video*1, 17
Sorry Bill — WRONG! Jesus was not born again. Jesus IS God, come in the Flesh, because He loves you, and knows man and their heart. Sin was laid upon Him (Is 53:6), He was sinless, He was not the soul who sinned who needed to die. He did not need to ‘become sin’ in order to take the penalty for our sin. This is abuse of 2 Cor 5:21.
We need Him, but we need to understand, that Jesus came knowing He would die FOR us, in our place. He was the LAMB of GOD. Jehovah Jireh, the promise that God would provide. Do you know my friend Jesus?
He was and is the High Priest offering Himself as the bloody sacrifice in our place. Because of His great love for you, and for all. The worst man or woman, Jesus still wanted to save. He came to seek and to save those who were lost. He came to save sinners. From what? Eternal death. The eternal death penalty. Are you saved eternally?
Our faith, and our trust, needs to be in Jesus, who is Prophet, King, Lord, God, Messiah… who died for OUR sin. Who was buried in our place. Who rose again, to show He had the POWER to take His life back up again… He is God. And if we believe on His sacrifice on our behalf, He will save us by our belief. Believe on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ (Lord = God, is the Messiah. Jesus, God, who is your Savior. Christ, the Anointed one who was to come to die in our place.)
Bill Johnson Teaches Jesus didn’t have any supernatural capabilities
Bill Johnson says, “Most all of the experiences of Jesus recorded in Scripture were prophetic examples of the realms in God that are made available to the believer. The Mount of Transfiguration raised the bar significantly on potential human experience…The overwhelming lesson in this story is that Jesus Christ, the Son of man, had the glory of God upon Him5. Jesus’s face shone with God’s glory, similar to Moses’s after he came down from the mountain…“ 4
Johnson says: “Jesus had no ability to heal the sick. He couldn’t cast out devils, and He had no ability to raise the dead. He said of Himself in John 5:19, “the Son can do nothing of Himself.” He had set aside His divinity. … He put self-imposed restrictions on Himself to show that us we could do it, too. Jesus so emptied Himself that He was incapable of doing what was required of Him by the Father – without the Father’s help.”26
THE BIBLE SAYS DIFFERENTLY: “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.” John 10:17-18
WHAT??? Jesus had no ability to heal the sick? This is proper understanding of Scripture? I suggest they read Isaiah 66:2
Speaking again of Jesus, Johnson wrote, “He performed miracles , wonders, and signs, as a man in right relationship to God…not as God. If He performed miracles because He was God, then they would be unattainable for us”. 13
This is not true. Jesus through the prophesied miracles and signs He would perform as FULLY God and FULLY MAN, would PROVE He was GOD. Why? Only GOD is Savior.
I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no Saviour. Isaiah 43:11
Yet I am the Lord thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no Saviour beside me. Hosea 13:4
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord. Luke 2:11
Teaches the ‘ascended lifestyle’.
Says that John 1:13 means Jesus ascended into heaven before His physical ascension and that is an “invitation for every believer”.2,3
He also says about the ascension of Christ, “The resurrection of Christ is actually your resurrection. His ascension is actually your legal access to heavenly realms”.2
In the non-professing New Age Movement, check into the angels, the Rainbow, the Pyramid, the ascended master, the Christ within us.
I recommend Constance Cumbey’s book, “The Hidden Dangers of the Rainbow: The New Age Movement and the Coming Age of Barbarianism.”
Extra-biblical revelation
Johnson writes, “Those who feel safe because of their intellectual grasp of Scriptures enjoy a false sense of security. None of us has a full grasp of Scripture, but we all have the Holy Spirit. He is our common denominator who will always lead us into truth. But to follow Him, we must be willing to follow off the map—to go beyond what we know”. 14
Sounds about right, UNTIL, he gets to where he is going, we have to ‘follow off the map.’ Isn’t that how people get lost?
BC pastor-prophet Kris Vallotton regarding raising the dead
Another subject that has drawn a lot of attention recently is dead raising. I need to be honest; I have personally never raised anyone from the dead although I have tried twice. But here again Jesus said, “And as you go, preach, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out demons….,” (Matthew 10:7-8).14
BILL JOHNSON’S END-TIMES OPINIONS DO NOT LINE UP WITH GOD’S WORD
Quotes:
- I will not embrace an end-time worldview that re-empowers a disempowered devil.
- I will not accept an eschatology that takes away my children’s future, and creates mindsets that undermine the mentality of leaving a legacy.
- I will not tolerate any theology that sabotages the clear command of Jesus to make disciples of all nations and the Lord’s Prayer that earth would be like heaven.
- I will not allow any interpretation of the scriptures that destroys hope for the nations and undermines our command to restore ruined cities
- I will not embrace an eschatology that changes the nature of a good God.
- I refuse to embrace any mindset that celebrates bad news as a sign of the times and a necessary requirement for the return of Jesus.
- I am opposed to any doctrinal position that pushes the promises of God into a time zone that can’t be obtained in my generation and therefore takes away any responsibility I have to believe God for them in my lifetime.
- I don’t believe that the last days are a time of judgment, nor do I believe God gave the church the right to call for wrath for sinful cities. There is a day of judgment in which GOD will judge man, not us.
All quotes from this link: http://www.xpmedia.com/article/9763/commentary-on-kris-vallottons-eschatological-core-values
Dan Pietrini, Jr., (picture below) Evangelism Director at Greater Chicago Church , with the “Chicago Revival Blow Out” team from Bethel at John Alexander Dowie’s grave. 37
Bethel Students soaking up anointing from dead men
IN THE VIDEO FOOTNOTE: Goes to graves… First, soaking up the anointing from the grave of false prophet Smith Wigglesworth. Says Holy Spirit still exists in the grave. Punching the devil out of people. Releasing anointing of a ‘chapel building’, etc.16
Toking of the Holy Ghost: With Bill Johnson’s tacit endorsement, BSSM students followed John Crowder’s lead (of the “toking the ghost,” “Jehovah-juana” paganism) in “sucking up the anointing” of dead people. As Fawcett notes, Johnson will begin his own holy relic museum to restore the lost anointing of “God’s generals” to the present church. Just as Roman Catholics believe that the belongings of late saints can earn gain someone divine assistance and even miracles, Bethel seems intent on calling Christians to the mysticism of object worship. 35
Tattoo Readings In addition to “normal” prophetic words, those who attended Bethel’s “Power and Love Conference” in February received readings based on their tattoos and piercings. Doug Addison can interpret the hidden messages on your body and even train you to do the same. You don’t even have to fly to where he is; for the reasonable fee of $150, he can tickle your ears over the phone for thirty minutes.35
STUDENTS FORGIVE SINS: Girl at Bethel says God tells her to forgive an unconscious dying man’s sins, and said he’ll be forgiven. She released God’s power over him and told him he would enter God’s kingdom…33
Kenosis Doctrine
Footnote 24 – see more info on footnote.
MORE ABERRANT TEACHINGS AND PRACTICES OF BETHEL/BILL JOHNSON
Bill Johnson (of Bethel church) believes and teaches;
There is always Healing in the Atonement – He says, Doctrine teaches, through Christ’s death, all believers are given physical healing.
-
- God never causes sickness.
- God always chooses to heal.
- Paul’s thorn in the flesh was definitely not a physical ailment.
- If you do not believe in healing on demand, you are preaching another gospel (Gal 1:6-9)
“I refuse to create a theology that allows for sickness.” Bill Johnson21
The Bible’s truth speaks and allows for sickness whether Mr. Johnson does or not, the TRUTH still stands.
If what you say is true, then ‘Physician, heal thyself’, remove your glasses Bill.
On the “Christ Anointing”31 – Speaks for itself
Elijah Generation & Anointing
Johnson believes that there will be a great end-time revival that will be initiated by an “Elijah generation”(a concept from the heretical Latter Rain movement) that shall transcend all other generations of Christians in regard to their ability to do great works of power.27
Johnson claims the following about himself and associates: “We will carry the Elijah anointing in preparing for the return of the Lord in the same way that John the Baptist carried the Elijah anointing and prepared the people for the coming of the Lord” (Johnson: 184).28 (Where do find that in Scripture?)
Glory Cloud, Feathers, Gold flakes
- Bill Johnson speaks in his own voice on Bethel TV regarding the angel dust etc. First, at about 1:35 on the clip, you can hear about the “glory cloud hovering over his platform at church with gold, smoke, dust, teeny, weeny little flakes”…
- At about 4:30, you can hear Bill Johnson talk about the feathers falling in his service, their homes, and restaurants, explains it with God “covering us with His feathers”.
- At about 6:00 you can hear how on a plane, gold flakes started to fall out of the air and people got saved (without hearing the gospel-Rom 10:14-17).
KINGDOM NOW THEOLOGY
Johnson misinterprets the Lord’s Prayer, which is primarily a prayer for the return of Christ. But he uses it in terms of his “kingdom now” theology: “This is the primary purpose for all prayer—if it exists in heaven, it is to be loosed on earth”. He is also referencing Matt 16:19, 18:18 and the power given the to the disciples (not to all believers). What he saying means that if we do not have problem free lives, we are lacking faith, praying wrongly, or failing to understand our role as having dominion. Johnson explains: “Such an invasion causes the circumstances here to line up with heaven”.30
House of Generals
Greatest Library of Revivalist Materials
In this video on Bethel, Johnson mentions these ‘great revivalists’ that he says the Lord told him to honor with this library, “because they have walked faithfully before the Lord in the past”. Johnson continued, “He will give us access to their anointings.” (Their students hang out at graves to soak in the anointing — Necromancy and other magical practices).
Some names he mentions: YIKES!
Billy Graham, Aimee Semple McPherson, Smith Wigglesworth, William Branham, Kathryn Kuhlman, John G. Lake, John Wimber, William J. Seymour, Maria Woodworth Etter, Lorenzo Dow, Alexander Dowie, Jack Coe, Evan Roberts.32
JESUS CULTURE BAND
Kim Walker testifies to seeing Jesus in person (like a stretch Armstrong doll she said). She also says she sees God the Father in person, ‘who tears a piece of His heart right out of His chest’.34
I don’t know WHAT she saw, but it was NOT God the Father, nor Jesus. The Bible is clear, that no one has seen God the Father in person. And that we will not see Jesus again until He comes for us.
Jenn Johnson, Senior Worship Pastor at Bethel Church – (from a reviewer who posts the video): “I actually don’t think I ever heard her quote a scripture, although she once mentioned the book of ‘Revelations’ in the context of “farting angels”. Charismatic teaching avoids scripture, and is basically story-telling. Jenn is pretty much a “one-trick pony” because it seems she only has one message. And this is it: The Holy Spirit is a like a blue genie to her. And He’s “sneaky.” SEE HERE
Bill Johnson:“Owls represent the prophetic. They see in the night.”36
Let’s look at a few sources on the spiritual and mystical significance of the Owl:
1) Cherokee [Indian] shamans viewed Eastern Screech-Owls as consultants on punishment and sickness. The Cree believed that the whistle-sounds of the Boreal Owl was a summoning call to the spirit world. Other Native American traditions hold that the owl represents vision and insight. In Africa the owl is associated with witchcraft and sorcery. Australia, China, Greenland, India, Indonesia, Japan, Russia and Sweden all have cultures or mythical traditions that give spiritual significance to the owl. 38
2) The owl is more than just a magnificent creature; at least that’s what the world of mythology and the occult would like you to believe. As birds of the night and birds of prey, the owl has been embraced as a symbol associated with psychic powers, the “angel of death,” and the goddess of night. Greek, Roman, and Celtic mythology all employ owls as representatives of spiritual influence. Hinduism also uses the owl as a symbol of cosmic spirituality.
The Bohemian Club
Probably one of the most bizarre occurrences of owl symbolism can be found at the “Bohemian Club.” The Bohemian Club is a rich-man’s organization that holds a two-week “camp” in northern California every year. This strange and secretive group, which has received very little press coverage, has an owl as its central symbol.
Each year, approximately 1,500 of America’s most influential CEO’s, government officials [including both former and current Presidents Bush], financiers, industrialists, and media moguls gather to hear speeches, network, and share common agendas. They also perform Druid-like ceremonies before a huge stone owl, complete with robes, fire, incantations, and other rituals.39
3) Since the founding of the club, the Bohemian Grove‘s mascot has been an owl, symbolizing knowledge.
The Cremation of Care ceremony was first conducted in the Bohemian Grove at the Midsummer encampment in 1881, devised by James F. Bowman with George T. Bromley playing the High Priest. The documentary Dark Secrets: Inside Bohemian Grove, Jones claimed that the Cremation of Care was an “ancient Canaanite, Luciferian,Babylon mystery religion ceremony,” and that the owl statue was Moloch.40
OTHER BILL JOHNSON QUOTES: http://www.zedekiahlist.com/cgi-bin/quotes.pl?&id=57408920
THE ALABASTER PRAYER HOUSE
Bethel Prayer Center known as The Alabaster prayer house, is appropriately topped with a nice big pyramid. Pyramids are important symbolry in the occult (also masonry), as well as globes and stars, and compass which is on the ground in a big circle around the globe on a stand. They offer contemplative prayer, soaking and meditation.
Next we see the inside for some of the symbolism shown there. Pyramids are also mixed with globes in occult symbolism and mystical as well as magical.
Evidently here we see what looks like a form of worship of this globe as one lays down before it. They have healing papers you can fill out.
Link with a lot of articles on BJ:
Footnotes: (Are Citations ONLY, not recommendations)
1 http://youtu.be/UzAwFYKe3h0 (*Now explains it as he was born again through the resurrection.)
3 http://www.zedekiahlist.com/cgi-bin/quotes.pl?&id=57408920&pid=97543920
4 (Face to Face with God 2007, Charisma House, Lake Mary, FL; p 200.)
6 (Says Lakeland was an anointing by God, we will be ‘blessed and encouraged by) http://apprising.org/2013/01/12/sound-advice-for-bethel-church-pastor-bill-johnson/
7 http://apprising.org/2013/01/03/jesus-culture-of-bethel-church-and-practicing-raising-the-dead/
8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvJMPccZR2Y
9 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvJMPccZR2Y (not a fan of wretched)
10 http://youtu.be/Un4zUupqm8c
11 Screenshot of JC’s FB statement – http://apprising.org/2013/01/02/louie-giglio-passion-2013-and-jesus-culture/
12 http://www.thebereancall.org/content/august-2012-q-and-a-1
13 (Johnson, “When Heaven Invades Earth”, p. 29).
14 (Johnson, “When Heaven Invades Earth”, p. 76)
15 http://apprising.org/2013/01/03/jesus-culture-of-bethel-church-and-practicing-raising-the-dead/
16 http://youtu.be/LrHPTs8cLls
17 http://notunlikelee.wordpress.com/2010/09/17/bill-johnsons-born-again-jesus-part-i/
18 Michael Boehm (Youth Apologetic’s training) – http://youthapologeticstraining.com/bill-johnson-exposed-08-portals-spirit-travel-sozo-and-angel-orbs/
19 http://www.johnthebaptisttv.com/warning-bill-johnson-and-bethel-church/
20 Guest speakers at their school frequently.
21 http://youthapologeticstraining.com/bill-johnson-and-healing-in-the-atonement/
22 Claims to be unique because they teach with ‘apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, & teachers….not by professors or theologions’
23 C. Peter Wagner, International Coalition of Apostles included Bill Johnson as one of the apostles who would give Todd Bentley his ‘ministry’ back.
24 Johnson says, “He performed miracles, wonders, and signs, as a man in right relationship to God . . . . not as God. If He performed miracles because He was God, then they would be unattainable for us” (Johnson: 29; emphasis and ellipses in original). Johnson’s theology requires that Christians do greater miracles than Jesus. If Jesus’ divinity had any influence on His mighty works, then we might think we could not do the same (and rightly so). So Johnson embraces what is often called the kenosis heresy—that Jesus laid aside His divine nature. He writes elsewhere: “He laid his divinity aside as He sought to fulfill the assignment given to Him by the Father . . .” (Johnson: 79).
25 DVD curriculum from the Bethel School (BSSM) offers the ‘apostolic and prophetic voice of Bill Johnson.
26 (Page 50; “The Supernatural Power of a Transformed Mind”).
27 Bill Johnson, When Heaven Invades Earth – A Practical Guide to a Life of Miracles, (Shippensburg, PA: Destiny Image, 2003) 150
28 Bob Dewaay from CIC Ministries. http://www.echozoe.com/archives/2519
29 (“When Heaven Invades Earth” page 141)
30 (“When Heaven Invades Earth” page 59) A review of the book: http://apprising.org/2013/01/06/an-invasion-of-error-review-of-when-heaven-invades-earth-by-bill-johnson/
32 http://mandate.ibethel.org/#takeAction
33 http://youtu.be/H4VpH1FKkSQ
34 http://youtu.be/kkFQe_vcqvg
35 http://gospelliving.blogspot.com/2013/04/why-jesus-culture-bethel-church-and_15.html
36 http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/johnsonfowllanguage.html
38 www.crossroad.to/Books/symbols1.html
39www.crossroad.to/articles2/2002/carl-teichrib/8owl.htm
40 Bohemian Grove – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Bravo! Well done & well researched, sister. This NEEDS to be shouted from the rooftops, AND from the STEEPLES of every single church out there as a WARNING ALARM BELL. These ppl are nothing more than RAVENOUS WOLVES. Thank you SO MUCH for EXPOSING these FRUITLESS DEEDS of DARKNESS.
Thank you Chef Lady, I had to do this to share with a pastor who is sharing this in a Bible Church’s college class…
Marian, I ask you and all christians to pray for the souls of bethel, especially the young among them. This is what they need the most. Lets also pray that bethel gets exposed so that more souls don’t get tricked by them. This is what Jesus would tell us to do in situations like this.
I know Marian, so I do know she does Timothy, and most especially we pray for those they are deceiving, it is tragic. Jesus warned us and wants us to warn others. He gave us plenty of reminders in His Word so that we might be able to have compassion on some and make a difference, while we hate the defiled garment.
YES it does! This is another awesome blog that tears down these deceivers with straight scripture!!
Thank you for commenting, we have a policy we do not post links unless the statement of faith and gospel have been sent. Let me know if you’d like, where I can find that. In Christ, Holly
Hi, I was introduced to bethel music about 2 years ago by my wife. To this, we’ve compiled all their music and have attended one of their concerts at the Grand arena, Cape Town South Africa. Having read some of the articles posted, I honestly found it hard to accept the information. I decided then to do some research of my own. The internet seems to be loaded with shocking info regarding Bill Johnson, Bethel church and their affiliation with occult and paganism. In spite of what I’ve come to know, I’m still struggling to come to terms with the fact that Bethel Music and Jesus Culture has an affiliation to any occultism or pagan worship. Im trying not to be ignorant nor in denial however, because my wife and I listen to these bands daily. How do I come to terms with what I know yet alone, convey it to my wife ?
Eugene, thank you for your great question, and I apologize for my delay in answering as I’ve had trouble logging into my own site due to a computer issue. I have to say the best way is to answer error with His Word. Their music can be quite compelling which makes it difficult because the music is beautiful. It reminds me of the old story of the sirens and their music and how they would have to lash themselves to the masts and plug their ears in order not to be compelled to do what the sirens were calling them to do (some truth even in myth). First I would start with the lyrics, and compare them to the Word of God (Acts 17:11). Guard your heart and mind in Christ Jesus (Phil 4:7) and answer the enemy with the sword, the Word of God (Matt 4). Please really read this article and contrast each thing Bill Johnson or Jesus Culture says with the Word of God (1 Thess 5:21). Test the spirits (1 John 4:1-3). Praying for you both.
Well done Holly and great researching. I agree totally & totally agree with what Marion said too! In my previous church fellowship, the pastor was into Bill Johnson’s programs and was making it a apart of the direction he wanted to take the church fellowship. My husband and I saw serious Biblical errors in Bill Johnston teaching & they did not line up with scripture at all. Also, Bill was running conferences with Bill Hybels, which the Pastor wanted us to attend. Most of those speakers, we didn’t know & upon researching, found they weren’t even Christian! They were world leaders in their worldly field! We refused to go to a compromising conference like this! To be fed worldly principles on leadership. The Pastor didn’t like us doing this. We had to stay true to God & His Holy word!
Bill Johnston as Todd Bentley’s leader, also felt it ok to reinstate Todd back into ministry! According to the Bible, Todd should never have been reinstated back into ministry!
Bill Johnston being linked heavily with the Ecumenical movement of one world religions! The Bible warns us about this! Also, like Holly said, Bill is also into the Kingdom now movement, which the pastor of my previous church fellowship was into as well. This Kingdom now movement does not line up with scripture either. Bill preaches on going to graves and praying over the grave sites & praying for the dead persons “anointing”. Once again, the Bible is so clear on this. Such evilness. I could go on & on about the evilness & deceptions of Bill Johnson’s false teachings. Well done Holly on the research you’ve done. I pray people seeing your blog will take notice & avoid this false teacher! Don’t trust your eternal souls to this man! The Bible says it is better to trust in God, then to trust in man. Trust your eternal soul to God & His Holy word! God Bless.
Thank you Fiona! Unfortunately, so many of these deceptive teachings are creeping in to the high school age and college groups in the churches, and most are not knowledgeable or discerning enough to know the error before it’s too late. God bless our young to ask questions, and for more pastors to be held accountable for PROVING ALL THINGS!
AMEN & AMEN, Fiona!! We need to be encouraging the youth AND the not-so-youthful to ♫DARE to be a DANIEL…♫DARE to take a STAND…♫ upon GOD’S WORD & NOT man’s words. We NEED MORE believers who aren’t afraid of sticking their necks out & be willing to be reviled for the sake of standing up for His Word & exposing these wrongful winds of doctrine, to MARK & AVOID those who preach ANOTHER GOSPEL…Oh Lord Jesus, may it be so!!!
Great research, I never realized the extent of Bill Johnson’s unbiblical satanic lies. He’s way out there.
Abe, I didn’t know either, but this is personal… A friend of my daughters invited her to a study to a mainstream Bible church where I live. And this was being taught in the college class. Still have more research on the unbiblical “Bible study” they supply through Freedom Resource Manual – another Bethel church subsidiary… 🙂
Read this at the suggestion of another brother. I agree with most of the assessments. However, I caution you. You admit here that this is “personal” to you. Whether in politic or religion, as soon as it gets “personal” we all tend to allow bias to enter in an begin to demonize people and look for ways to make the worst out of all we can. Methods such as excerpting quotes from a larger teaching can create quite a slant for you. You make many excellent points, but at times are “piling on” with more questionable things in order to inflate this as much as possible. If you don’t have scripture specifically denouncing some of these things, best to leave it alone. Churches split over color of carpet and such. Just be extra careful not to overstep into your own personal bias. thanks for your efforts and showing me a lot of things i did not know about Bethel and the Johnsons
Andy, by personal it meant that it came into my own family, or I would have never bothered to research it. I only do what comes across my desk, I don’t look for it.
Instead of generalizing the “piling on questionable things”, please feel free to point out what you feel is questionable because honestly? I had a hard time knowing where to stop, there was so much that was heretical. I was kind of flabbergasted that these people have gone so far. Anytime though that people add to His Word, it becomes personal because it’s only His truth that will set people free. I do believe I can Scripturally answer all the error I mentioned, I just assumed people would recognize it themselves. So thank you for that, I will add these things. As for the color of carpet etc., that is probably not really relevant to what I wanted to do in obedience to God’s Word to mark and avoid these false prophets who are misleading many youth.
Agree with you Marian, am hoping the college pastor I am emailing currently will hear. He says he is aware of his ‘doctrine’ but I can’t imagine being aware, yet using their teachings…
Me neither, Holly…It’s like that old saying (which is unbiblical, btw) that many wrongly adhere to: “chew the meat, spit out the bones”. What they fail to realize is even ONE BONE hidden inside a piece of meat will pierce flesh, especially the tender flesh inside of one’s mouth, & causing great harm. We are to be on guard of what we allow to enter our minds. We are to “ Come out from among them and be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you.” (2 Cor 6:17) We are to “be of noble character” as Paul admonished the Bereans in Acts 17:10-11
10 Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more fair-minded[noble character] than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the Word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.”
We are to “STUDY to show ourselves approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth”…& studying DOES take time, but it is ESSENTIAL that we MAKE the time to do so, or else one should not be in a place of leadership.
Too many in the church leadership today are leaving the gate to the sheepfold open for wolves…RAVENOUS wolves…to fleece the flock that Jesus has entrusted to them. Jesus gave instruction to Peter after His resurrection to “FEED HIS SHEEP”. As any good shepherd will do, he will make SURE that the feed is TOP-GRADE, PURE, & UNDEFILED by any sort of impurities. A good shepherd will also give them fresh clean WATER to drink from. He will tend to them…care for them as if these sheep were his own. If they knowingly allow wolves in then wow…I sure do feel sorry for these pastors who do not turn at His rebuke, even if it is given via other believers seeking to shine the light of truth, & they do not tremble at His Word..because it will be a FEARFUL THING to FALL INTO THE HANDS OF THE LIVING GOD.
bravo
I just have to say, nearly EVERYTHING on this website is taken out of context, twisted, and written in a spririt of religion and accusation. And I don’t go to Bill Johnson’s church! Funny, because it’s the same thing Bill Johnson and any one associated with him is accused of. The major problem with all that is, it’s condemning some one for their walk with The Lord, their experience with Him, and for teaching and allowing others to experience the same freedom in Christ. If Bethel was a “cult” would God really allow hundreds of thousands of people that love Him to be led down this “cultish” path? Are the healings and signs and wonders fake? Have any of you bashing this Pastor, or Pastors spoken to a single person who has been healed? Restored? Or been taught to walk in constant communication with Christ? The difference between religion and God is, religion does not allow for freedom, it divides, accuses, condemns, and judges. But God is LOVE, His LOVE covers all and sets us free! He does not condemn, but corrects in love. So if He loves me, as I am in love with Jesus, wouldn’t the God of our Bible, the Holy Spirit we know, not condemn us, but gently reveal where corrections need to be made? Can any of you who accuse and condemn Bill Johnson or any one associated with him honestly say that your condemnation, or accusations are being done in the love of Christ? Love allows for differences, and just because I believe in supernatural healing, in supernatural restoration does not mean I am apart of a cult. It’s from experience, it’s part of my reality, and all Bill Johnson is teaching is that God is bigger, bigger than your “religion”, bigger than your mind can comprehend, and maybe, just maybe, if you could break free from the religious spirit that this site is written out of, you could experience God in a deeper way than your THEOLOGY would allow. Just because things are written here, does not mean they are true, because there is more lies on this website than what Bill Johnson is being accused of. And if it’s not done through the same love that put Jesus on the cross, it means nothing.
Dear friend, Deneen, I wish you might have taken the time to be specific and rebuke with God’s Word, instead of judging by the appearance. Judge with a righteous judgment, which can only be by holding up teachings of men to the Word of God. Those who do love His Word, do not love Him.
Jesus asked, when He came again, would He find faith on the earth. He warned that MANY deceivers would deceive MANY. He also warned that only a few would find the narrow way that leads to LIFE. I do what I do out of love for those who do not know Jesus yet, and out of love for the body of Christ, those who would be possibly deceived by these false teachers. Experience never can trump God’s Word, or we are casting His Word behind us, and holding up men’s revelations in front of or equal to God’s Word. This is what He has to say about that.
God has magnified His Word, even above His name. (Ps 138:2)
But to the wicked God says: “What right have you to declare My statutes, Or take My covenant in your mouth, Seeing you hate instruction And cast My words behind you? Ps 50:16-17
For all those things My hand has made, And all those things exist,” Says the Lord. “But on this one will I look: On him who is poor and of a contrite spirit, And who trembles at My word. Isaiah 66:2
And so to those Scriptures I respond:
Your word is very pure; Therefore Your servant loves it. I rejoice at Your word As one who finds great treasure. Ps 119:140,162
But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. 2 Corinthians 11:12-15
God has some very strong words about those who pervert His Word, who prophesy and He did not send them. He says even the person that approves of these prophet’s words are in big trouble, read for yourself. It is no joke to change His Word.
“Is not My word like a fire?” says the Lord,
“And like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?
“Therefore behold, I am against the prophets,” says the Lord, “who steal My words every one from his neighbor.
Behold, I am against the prophets,” says the Lord, “who use their tongues and say, ‘He says.’
Behold, I am against those who prophesy false dreams,” says the Lord, “and tell them, and cause My people to err by their lies and by their recklessness.
Yet I did not send them or command them; therefore they shall not profit this people at all,” says the Lord.
“So when these people or the prophet or the priest ask you, saying, ‘What is the oracle of the Lord?’ you shall then say to them, ‘What oracle?’ I will even forsake you,” says the Lord.
“And as for the prophet and the priest and the people who say, ‘The oracle of the Lord!’ I will even punish that man and his house.
Thus every one of you shall say to his neighbor, and every one to his brother, ‘What has the Lord answered?’ and, ‘What has the Lord spoken?’
And the oracle of the Lord you shall mention no more. For every man’s word will be his oracle, for you have perverted the words of the living God, the Lord of hosts, our God.
Thus you shall say to the prophet, ‘What has the Lord answered you?’ and, ‘What has the Lord spoken?’ 38 But since you say, ‘The oracle of the Lord!’ therefore thus says the Lord: ‘Because you say this word, “The oracle of the Lord!” and I have sent to you, saying, “Do not say, ‘The oracle of the Lord!’” therefore behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you and forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and will cast you out of My presence. And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame, which shall not be forgotten.’” Jeremiah 23:29-40
(I will answer in quotes Deneen and in bold, so people will recognize it is me answering you)
DENEEN SAYS: Just the same as what’s been done above, you can take any scripture and twist it until it fits. But to clarify my point, there are quotes of Bill Johnson’s that were taken out if context, and added with others that have been taken out if context for you to prove a point. That’s the same as taking a scripture about false prophets and applying it to some one like Bill Johnson.
(Feel free to correct me specifically on what quote you say was taken out of context. Please also quote your sources-thank you.)
My question to you is, have you gone to him and asked him about the things he is teaching? Have you for one moment considered that slandering this man of God might not be done out of love? You say it’s because you love the lost, but I wonder how many people you will spend eternity with that got to Jesus through the ministry of the very same Pastors you are slandering. Are you the Holy Spirit? Do you know Bill Johnson’s heart? Or the others offiliated with him? Have you ever spoken to them about your issues with their theology before publicly slandering them?
(Once something is public, it must be publicly corrected. People can only come to the true Jesus, if the true Jesus is preached, if it is another Jesus, then the it is a powerless message, unable to save. Only the gospel is the POWER of God unto salvation)
I love Gods word, I feed off of it…He is my reason for waking, breathing, eating, working and loving. I believe these same principles that Bill Johnson teaches, not just because I heard it one day and thought, oh, that sounds good…quite the opposite in fact, I skeptically searched the heart and will of God in my life. I have been set free from a spirit of religion, one that would tell me it’s ok to publicly shame some one because their experience of The Lord, their revelation of His word is different than my own. And when I was set free from that over my life, I experienced God in such supernatural ways, and still do. I have seen signs and wonders with my own eyes, and felt the presence of the Holy Spirit more than any other point in my walk with Him. It’s part of my testimony, it’s part of being under the blood of Jesus and experiencing the freedom that His love brings. But to quote me back a scripture of false prophets means nothing until you can prove that he is one?
(I believe the proof has already been made multiple times over that Bill Johnson preaches another Jesus, not the Jesus of the Bible. The heart is deceitful, desperately wicked, who can know it. Best to ask God to search your heart – Jer 17:9-10)
And if you say that you are slandering these people because you love the body of Christ, did Jesus ask you to slander, humiliate, twist, and contort what they are preaching? Jesus said, “I will build my church”. In Timothy it says if you have offense with a Pastor, you are to go to him in the presence of 2 or 3 witnesses, did you do that? Did you call Patricia King, and ask, “before I publicly declare you a false prophet, I need to ask you about the doctrine your teaching?” I have stood beside Patricia King in worship, I have felt the presence of God Himself envelope us with His love, and I’m pretty sure the scripture you through out about how He hates false prophets would say that that wouldn’t be possible for some one like Patricia? If you want to throw out Gods word, and twist it to hurt people instead of loving them into alignment with Christ, then follow Gods word yourself. Go to these people, ask them about the “false” doctrine they are teaching. Because I am sure you well know how many times in scripture it talks about people that speak against leaders that God has placed in authority over churches. And if you aren’t the Holy Spirit, you have no way of knowing the love, or lack there of between Bill Johnson, his associates, me or any one else and the Father.
Can you honestly say that you have followed Titus 3:2?
To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men Titus 3:2
(There is no slander of Bill Johnson, only you in the reverse, but I forgive you anyway. When it has already been witnessed by well more than 2 or 3, see my footnotes, screen shots of his own words, videos of him speaking, the Word has been obeyed)
Your post was not in the love if Christ, because His love covers all, it doesn’t cover half of us and leave the others shamed and alone. You would have been more effective taking this before the throne of God, and laying it at His feet, and praying for protection over His people, instead of being a resounding noise.
Let no foul or polluting language, nor evil word nor unwholesome or worthless talk ever come out of your mouth, but only such speech as is good and beneficial to the spiritual progress of others, as is fitting to the need and the occasion, that it may be a blessing and give grace (God’s favor) to those who hear it. Ephesians 4:29.
(Jesus said, Judge with a righteous judgment, and not according to the appearance. Jn 7:24. Further on in Ephesians it tells us, And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. Eph 5:11. That is what I am doing, and it is Jesus that knows my heart and motives, and also theirs, and will give each one of us according to our ways, by the fruit of our doings. I will let God judge between you and I. I leave the outcome to Him, but what I do, I will continue to do, to cut off their opportunity to preach another Jesus, to corrupt minds from the simplicity that is in Christ.)
POSTCRIPT: Here’s something I hope you will consider Deneen: The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness! Matt 5:22-23
My issue is not that your theology is different, or that you don’t believe what these people teach, or even that you want to call them out on it. Yes! Know who is among you! But the way you have done it, declaring that these people are false prophets with out ever meeting them, or hearing testimony after testimony of lives they’ve changed, or people that love Jesus because in spite of people like you they have given their lives to the King of Kings. The way you have done this, declaring YOUR truth to be Gods truth, that your revelation of Gods word up to this point is all there is, and painting any one that believes in these principle in a “cult” is incredibly hurtful. Instead of fearing that college kids will believe in supernatural healing and signs and wonders, how about rejoicing before The Lord that they are HIS!!! His blood is enough to cover them, to protect them, and to correct them and bring them into alignment with His will for their lives. I urge you, do what scripture says to do, go to these people and discuss your offense in the presence of witnesses before publicly slandering them… They may be wrong, and if they were false witnesses, they still are Gods children, His precious creation, Jesus still died for them, and you have publicly dragged His servants names through the mud. How incredibly hurtful, and sad that is.
Ha! To say that he is teaching the wrong Jesus?! I would tread VERY lightly there!! Your posts about him are out of context, and any one who knows his teaching, or anything like it understands that completely…a word to the wise, don’t ever tell some one that professes to love Jesus that they know the “wrong” Jesus, Im very defensive about that comment as any one would be that loves The Lord. Answer this one question for me…was the post you wrote about Bill Johnson and those that associate with him written in the love of Christ? Remembering that Jesus love would not only cover His body of believers, but also Bill Johnson and the others? Because we can debate theology all day long, and that I am not interested in.
Thank you! These accusations do not even make since ! They are completely out of context. Nothing Bill says is against the bible—– miracles signs and wonders should be a normal part of the Christian life.
Be happy to hear which ‘accusation’ does not make sense 🙂 Which one is ‘out of context’. Let’s start with one thing Kristan, because I a happy to hear if something is out of context, instead of just a broad sweeping context. But I have to tell you, these kinds of ‘miracles, signs and wonders’, fit better in a Las Vegas magic act. I do not see the dignity and humility of the acts of the apostles, or the miracles that Jesus performed. Never did I see them grave soaking or standing under glitter floating down from soap machines. The only time I can think of a time where one fell back in the presence of God is when the wicked ones came to murder Jesus when they came to arrest Him and all He had to say is “I am He” and they could not stand under His power. They could not have taken Him had He not allowed it. He was fully man, and fully God, so you had better be sure who you follow dear one, it had better be God, because in the end, there will be MANY false prophets, and MANY will be deceived. Make sure you know His Word. Hide it in your heart, for your sake…
Deneen, some people will allow themselves to be led into a ditch by their blind leaders. You too will be held accountable for defending him. Bill Johnson’s words teach another Jesus.
1. Jesus was NOT born again as Bill Johnson says, (the video evidence is provided)
2. No, the ‘experiences’ of Jesus recorded in Scripture were NOT prophetic examples of realms of God made available to the believer! They were miracles which attested to the fact that He was the Messiah, the anointed one, Christ, the LORD (God, the Messiah)
3. Jesus absolutely had ALL the ability and ALL the power to heal the sick. He is God. He was NOT incapable of doing one thing.
4. He performed miracles as FULLY GOD (unlike what BJ says) and fully man, NOT as a man “in right relationship to God’
There is much more above, but since you obviously did not, and will not examine the evidence, instead you defend a man that is deceiving people, you will also be deceived. I pray the Lord might open your eyes if He is willing.
Thanks for your responses to Deneen and to all who, like her, appear to be woefully bible ignorant and gullible. Your answers were clear, concise and, above all, scriptural. Bethel and Jesus Culture are making a mockery of the Gospel and its our duty as believers to protect the sheep. Thanks Holly
Thank you D.Gowefs,
We know that the enemy has them in his snare, praying for them to search God’s Word and to be sanctified by His truth, not dirtied or worse, sentenced to death by the words of men that are false. These men who call themselves prophets and apostles need tested and found liars…
I wish people would remember Jesus praying in the garden for THEM… Sanctify them through Your truth, Your WORD is truth. (Jn. 17:17)
Did you interview Bill?
There is no need to interview Bill, his comments are public, and are to be brought to the light. Since I mark and also avoid Bill as per Rom 16:17-18, I would have no interest in interviewing him… I do pray that if the Lord is willing, he will be delivered from his own deception and the Jesus of his own making.
What does an interview have to do with what he says?? Lol. Everyone avoids the issues from scriptural texts because they love to avoid controversy. The apostles didn’t, the early church didn’t, and I’m not either. We are to refute and avoid false gospels. Paul even said to let those who preach another Jesus be accursed. I didn’t say that, the Bible did.
This “lovey dovey” Christianity that isn’t “truth in love” is the problem with our culture, and why so many false teaching is allowed in our churches. We don’t study like good Bereans, and we don’t crave and desire good theology for living. We just want our ears tickled with some sort of prophetic word or manifestation, instead of carefully applying the word to our daily lives. It’s ridiculous.
Excellent response Johnny. I sincerely pray people might pray and ask the Lord to show them through His already revealed Word if what these people are saying is true.
You are doing great Holly, keep up the good work.
People must keep in mind one very important thing …. Exposing False Prophets is not slandering them personally but exposing their false teachings and doctrines.
And that is what we are required to do.
Jesus said…. many will do mighty works in my Name, heal the sick, cast out demons, raise the dead,etc… but when they stand in front of Him on judgemet day He will say “Depart from Me,I never knew you!” It’s sad and difficult to hear but it’s the truth, Jesus said it!
Arlene, so right, Exposing false prophets is not slander. I haven’t quite heard from one Bill Johnson Supporter yet, where there is error in any of my citations (which I would happily remove). Which things that I listed has he NOT done? Can they actually support these things being done in Jesus name through the Word of God? Will some ever test the spirits? I sure pray so. This church clearly preaches another Jesus, and it is very hurtful and deceiving. It blasphemes the way of truth.
But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber. 2 Pet 2:1-5
I have heard countless inconsistencies with Bill over the past several years… and will have to say Holly that you pretty much NAILED IT!
Let’s just take that ONE thing he said… “Jesus was Born-Again” ok, now, the REAL JESUS is GOD made FLESH(Emmanuel!!) The GREAT “I AM”… He is GOD the SON…
so, if someone “believes” that the jesus(un-capitalized on purpose) Mr.Johnson is preaching to his followers NEEDS to be “Born-Again”(born of the Spirit)…then they CAN’T believe that Jesus of the Bible is GOD…cause GOD is GOD… Father, Son and Spirit…THEY are ONE!!! Jesus doesn’t need to be BORN of the SPIRIT of GOD…cause He IS the SPIRIT of GOD!!! aauughhh
He has not only Blasphemed the SPIRIT by saying this, he has ADDED to the WORD of GOD…which is forbidden! Yet, Bill doesn’t seem to MIND FORBIDDEN things…ie: Necromancy!! among COUNTLESS other things he claims, pronounces, teaches, “experiences”!
BUT… just from that ONE thing Mr.Johnson said(NOT taken out of context by the way) it is ENOUGH for any God Fearing, WORD LOVING, BORN-AGAIN Believer to MARK, AVOID and EXPOSE him for…He is FALSE…wearing Sheep clothing…he is a WOLF and MUST and I mean MUST be EXPOSED!!! per the WORD of GOD!!
CULT…oh yes it is… people defend him with NO regard to the WORD at all…this is NOT about “different interpretation”…this is about TRUTH…and Bill doesn’t have it…and his followers, if they are saved, it’s NOT cause of anything Bill is preaching…and the Spirit will CONFIRM it to them to COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM!! If they don’t? Sad to say, they are NOT His.. but that isn’t my job to say…
BUT, it is OUR JOB to defend the WORD… and exposing EVIL DEEDS of those who preach another gospel/another jesus…cause if we KNOW the truth, and we don’t say anything??? WE SHARE in those EVIL DEEDS and are held accountable!…
Paul EXPOSED people out of LOVE for the LORD and HIS WORD…he did it PUBLICLY!! He showed us HOW…and Matt 18 was NEVER intended for FALSE TEACHERS…it was a grievance over one hurting another or SIN… let’s get into CONTEXT and stay there…these pastors are “inaccessible”… believe me…
I went to a “mega” church and to talk to the pastor even by appointment was IMPOSSIBLE…oh you can talk to another pastor(one that is under that one) but to talk directly to them… um ya, not going to happen! So, even if Matt 18 was applicable here(which it most certainly is not), no e-mail, phone call, appointment in person, could get you to be able to sit down one on one with them to “tell them of the grievances”…
and it really seems to me that Paul would of been one of the FIRST ones to show us if we needed to go to them personally FIRST, then to 2-3 and so on…when he spoke through the Spirit penning the WORD OF GOD regarding false teachers. He didn’t, so, I will not ADD to the Word and say we have to do this…and I believe the Lord KNEW we couldn’t “touch” the “Elite” in the Last Days to be able to go one on one with them…hence, no mention of Matt 18 in the Epistles.
The Lord said that the Jews(and seems those that are after the “EXPERIENCE” rather than TRUTH) seek after a sign(and wonders) and to the Greek, Foolishness about the simplicity of the Gospel… Jesus IS the Narrow WAY, TRUTH and LIFE, and FEW I repeat, FEW will find HIM! We can only trust what the Lord says in HIS WORD…cause the “falling away” is NIGH!! YET even so, COME LORD JESUS COME!!
Kimberrly – unfortunately people seem to accept these experiences and are unwilling or blinded, not sure which, to obediently test the spirits, prove all things….
I haven’t yet seen correction of any ‘false’ statement or ‘slander’, just accusation of wrongly slandering him. I guess people won’t believe what is right in front of their eyes. So sad to me. I pray they will though.
Again, I’d be so fearful that the light I thought was in me, was not really the Light of the world.
The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness! Matt 5:22-23
HA… I have seen those verses several times in the past couple days… such confirmation Holly… THANK YOU!! 🙂 oh and I couldn’t agree more… I kept thinking “SLANDER?” you mean WHAT BJ actually SAID!?!?!?!?! well, nuff said IMHO.. 😉
Some just refuse to hear, or understand. They cannot perceive for their hearts are grown dull, ears hard of hearing, eyes closed….
‘Go to this people and say:
“Hearing you will hear, and shall not understand;
And seeing you will see, and not perceive;
For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.”’ Acts 28:26-27
Your right, I will be held accountable for defending not only Bill Johnson, but others who dare to say that God is bigger and deeper than we could dream, that we can have as much of Him, or as little of Him as we want. I’m counting on it!!! And funny enough, I read the scriptures above and feel sorry for people like you who just can’t seem to break free of the religious spirit that has you bound and blinded, so so blind. You still could not answer my question, did you write this article in the love of Christ? And of course you don’t want to answer that, because if you knew Jesus’s love, His GRACE, you wouldn’t have written it in the first place, you can quote the scriptures all you like and use them and twist them to judge others, and hurt others, and make others feel less than, but because you did not do it in love, you have nothing…
13 If I speak in the tongues[a] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[b] but do not have love, I gain nothing.
4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Actually, I did answer you more than once about whether I answered in the love of Christ Deneen, you just seemed to refuse to hear.
I love Him because He first loved me. And I know that any judgment must be by the truth of His Word and spoken in love.
I love you too sister, and hope you will see, that this man is preaching another Jesus.
2 John 1:7-11
Ah see, here is what is so interesting about the responses of those that say they have love, judge you for not having love, accuse you of a religious spirit, being blind…not having love…
Yes Deneen, this article is written most certainly because of my love of Christ, and in His love. His Word is TRUTH. He desires those who worship Him in spirit and TRUTH. If we love Him, we will feed His sheep (not poison). If we love Him, we will tend His lambs. If we love Him, we will abide in His Word, which again is TRUTH.
If I have twisted Scriptures (as you accuse), please show me which ones I have twisted or misquoted. Never would I do that, as I love and treasure God’s Word (Ps 119:140,162). His Word is TRUTH (Jn. 17:17)
Are you judging me now with a righteous judgment (Jn 7:24)? I have been blessed to be loved first by Him, which has enabled me to love you at this moment. I have been the recipient of His grace, I have been set free by His TRUTH. I pray you will seek the truth too. I’d like to point you again to vs. 6 that you quoted above.
Do not delight in evil, but rejoice with the TRUTH!
In His love, Holly
Deneen, I agree with you:) 100%:)
Excited to recognize one with the Heart of Jesus inside! In order to be able to see, one must embrace the Holy Spirit wholeheartedly, who will inevitably challenge the intellect and mind and doctrinal theology of man. Otherwise, one embraces the spirit of religion who knows Scripture so well that leads you to bash others with it:)
We must humble ourselves because we don’t know it all.
And the Father gives grace to us:)
I love Him so much!!!
Bros and sisters, I declare publicly on this blog that God loves each of you and Bill Johnson equally:)
Ellie – Thank you for commenting. The Holy Spirit uses the Word of God to keep us in remembrance of His Word. He is the author of Scripture, and the One who guides us into all truth. He would never lead us somewhere that contradicted His Word. It is never a negative to know Scripture so well, the Bereans were called noble for searching the Scriptures to see if what Paul was saying was true. You can declare that I am ‘one embraces the spirit of religion’ but what my concern is that you are embracing another spirit.
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. 2 Cor 11:3-4
Bill Johnson’s ‘gospel’ is not the gospel the Bible preaches. Jesus answered the enemy with “It is written” three times when He was being tempted by Satan. The Holy Spirit always declares Jesus, not Himself.
Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you. John 16:13-15
We are indeed to humble ourselves under God’s mighty hand (1 Pet 5), and we are to submit to God and resist the enemy. Do you know that our only offensive spiritual weapon is the Word of God? We are to always use His Word, knowing God Himself, magnifies His Word above even His name.
I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name
for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth:
for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.
Because Jesus is Lord of All, through the believing of His gospel, I have had my eyes opened. All I know is I once was blind but now I see. I agree with you, that the Father loves the whole world so much that He gave His only Son to die in our place. I pray for you, that your eyes will be opened to the deception that Bill Johnson is promoting, to the different Jesus he preaches about, and the different spirit he embraces, before it’s too late. It’s as apparent as the eyeglasses on his face.
May the Lord bless you to see the importance of doctrine (1 Tim 4:16), which never changes.
I always find those particular verses in 2 John HARD to swallow… it’s like.. “CAN the Lord change them?” OF COURSE… but, WILL HE? maybe NOT cause of the hardness in their heart towards what the Lord actually says in His WORD…they scoff at it in a subtle way by not “hearing” or even “seeing” with their own eyes and ears the things the Lord tells us to do regarding falseness. The BODY of CHRIST has to be the ones that will “HEAR HIM”… oh I am not speaking of SIN here… but TRUTH… if someone is in SIN… we gently restore… love on them till they “come back” abiding in the center of His PALM… but, these false teachers, they are to be CALLED OUT so that those who listen to them won’t FOLLOW them to the pit… that’s LOVE… not wanting anyone to perish… not wanting anyone to teach others wrong and lead them to the pit… that love for the Body gets passed on by the ones who “HEAR and SEE” from the WORD… but, those that don’t…their hearts get MORE HARD as the verses say…cause the Lord KNOWS they will NOT hear and see…correctly! It’s such a sad set of verses… makes me cry actually! :'(
Thank you for sharing this truth which I hope you will see…
Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 1 Cor 13:6
YES REJOICING with the TRUTH in God’s WORD which is even ABOVE HIS VERY NAME(Ps. 138:2)… which is pretty powerful considering His Glory is ABOVE the earth and Heaven(Psalm 148:13), but, I believe He told us these things so we wouldn’t misconstrue HIS NAME and USE it like BJ does in claiming things that are not Scriptural… I shudder at those that don’t handle His Word correctly(especially when SHOWN the truth)(Isaiah 66)
Same thing happened in Jeremiah’s days… even the Heavens were terribly afraid(Jer 2) cause of the people’s UNWILLINGNESS to hear…
and this is WHY we do these things(stand up for the WORD)
1 John 1:1-3
1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of Life;
2 (For the Life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that Eternal Life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ.
FOR THE LOVE of HIS WORD! cause the TRUTH sets PEOPLE FREE…indeed!
THANK YOU AGAIN Holly for standing in the TRUTH…may it set those captives free and the Glory of the Lord be manifest in these things which are from the WORD! Love you!
Reblogged this on The Shepherd/Guardian and commented:
Heresy Alert!!!
Thank you, appreciate you looking out for others.
Reblogged this on Floating on Tiptoes.
May God open the eyes of others. May they come to know who He is, vs. the false gods of these movements.
The Christian church in America is divided into hundreds of churches—and there are many different interpretations of scriptures, passages and the formation of church doctrines. However, if you believe Jesus was raised from the dead by God the Father, and Jesus died for our sins, and Jesus is the son of God who sits at the right hand of God, then we are all brothers and sisters in the Lord. Jesus distilled the Bible down to 2 major commandments: love thy God with all of your heart mind, soul and strength, and Love your neighbor as yourself. In James 1:27 the Word exhorts us to visit the orphan and the widow in their affliction and keep oneself unspotted before the world. In Romans, Paul says none of it matters, unless we have love for one another.
Everyone is different and everyone can respond to God in a fashion that brings them closer to God, or whatever makes them more comfortable. Every church can play their part in preaching the gospel and feeding the poor. We don’t have to agree on every doctrine. Jesus died for us all because he loved us and gave us the access to the Father’s love, mercy and grace. Mercy triumphs over judgment!
People who attend Bethel church, you don’t need to defend yourselves; I know you are crazy about God and Jesus. I may not agree on everything you do or teach, however, who am I to judge you? If I judge you, I judge hundreds of other churches that may not line up with my beliefs. Church doctrines have divided the body of Christ into hundreds of splinters for hundreds of years. Is this God’s way? Is this what Jesus died for? We were not put on this earth to judge each other; we were put on this earth to love each other. If we spent more time on our knees praying for one another rather than judging one another, we would be obeying God’s commandments.
The Pharisees knew the bible better than anyone, however the author of the book stood right in front of them, healed the sick, raised the dead, and they still went away to plot his death.
Here’s a thought. If someone says they know me, based on what another tells them, do they really know ME?
For example. If I say I am one thing, but they contradict a very important part of WHO I am, do they really know ME? Or a figment of their imagination with my name?
To suggest Jesus is a born again man, is a lie and preaches another Jesus. Much of what Bill preaches is another Jesus. You can believe in that Jesus, or the Jesus of the Bible. Let’s look a little into the passage (Jn 5:36-47) regarding the Pharisees ‘knowing the Bible better than anyone’.
The Pharisees searched the Scriptures, they picked and chose what they wanted to believe, taking it out of context, for their own gain. They handled the Scriptures deceitfully. They made long prayers for pretense. They received honor from men. They added much of their own tradition and their words. They ignored the testimony of Jesus (sound familiar yet?) They would not come to HIM that they might have life.
Moses had testified of the Prophet to come, if these Pharisees had God’s Word abiding in them, they would have believed Him. They also did not ‘hear His voice’, (which comes from His Word, so did they actually know it better than anyone?) No, it cannot be since they were in the natural, and unable to discern the spiritual.
Similarly, they did not know or recognize WHO Jesus really was, nor did they have the love of God in them. Jesus was right there, but they would not come to Him, that they might have life…
But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me. And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. I receive not honour from men. But I know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. I am come in my Father’s name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me; for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Jesus tells us to “judge with a righteous judgment and not according to the appearance”. A righteous judgment is to “prove all things and hold fast to that which is good”. We were warned to mark and avoid who cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine we learned. When we can easily hold up the doctrine and the Jesus he preaches, and see that Bill Johnson preaches another Jesus, if we say nothing, we are complicit. If we compromise His Word for the sake of some false unity, He has something to say about that in Is 66:2, and Psalm 50:16-17.
So, again, many will cry Lord Lord… the question people need to ask themselves is, “which Jesus do you know”? Is it the Jesus preached in the Bible, who was God from the beginning? Or one who became a god after he was ‘born again’? That Jesus being preached, is another Jesus.
But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it! 2 Cor 11:3-4
Take some time today and pray for your enemies. Visit the orphan and widow in their affliction. Lay hands on someone and see if the love of God will heal them. Lay hands on someone and pray they receive the Baptism of the HolyvSpirit with evidence in tongues. Go love thy neighbor as thy self. Ask God if He ordained you to be the doctrine Sheriff, and then ask God to forgive us for we know not what we’ve done. I forgive you for your false statements. May you have a love encounter with God that will transform you and will change your life forever.
Eternally His
Dr. David Tacha
David, how do I answer someone that doesn’t know what they are saying? Ironic. I guess only to say in return, I forgive you for your false accusations in your note, you make somehow think you rightly judge, you do not… By the way, when you do bring an accusation of false statements in writing, you might consider naming what my alleged false statements were.
May you not compromise God’s Word yourself, may none of us, (Psalm 50:16-17) for that Word will judge all in the end. It is only the truth that will set you (or anyone else) free Dr. Tacha.
I won’t justify my works or commend myself to anyone, it is the Lord that is able to make me stand, and so to Him I do any of my alms, and I whatever I do, it is unto Him and done cheerfully with His help in all.
For we dare not class ourselves or compare ourselves with those who commend themselves. But they, measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise. 2 Cor 10:12
God has been so good to me, I love His Word, and what I do, I will continue to do as long as He allows for this reason:
But what I do, I will also continue to do, that I may cut off the opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the things of which they boast. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works. 2 Cor 11:12-15
Lord, open their eyes to this deception if You are willing. Convict their hearts of their lack of love for/and abiding in Your Word. May they desire to search the Scriptures to see if these things are so that this man Bill Johnson is teaching in contradiction to what You Yourself have said in Your Word. If just one Lord, I am so thankful. In Your name Jesus, the name above all names…
David, how do I answer someone that doesn’t know what they are saying? An Interesting and dismissing statement. Mercy triumphs over judgement. He who is without sin cast the first stone. Jesus was died for our remission of sins so we could be reconciled to the love of the Father. In turn, we now can go to show the love of the Father to mankind. Do you know why he loves us? It’s not because we think we have God doctrine in a pretty box with a bow tied on it, it’s because we are his children. Do you really think all of your religious doctrines are without error? Thank God for His Grace and mercy. I love God so much. I am crazy in love with Him. What do you think is most important to Him.
David
David, I couldn’t have said it any better. I wonder if any of these people that are accusing Bill have ever been wrong, ever taught their children wrong, ever lied, or spoken something in error, or ever been miss understood. And yet Gods grace says He is crazy over the top in love with them, and did not condemn them and say they are fakes, frauds or fony’s because of their error.
What we are saying is not that their is no room for Bill being incorrect, but that Gods grace is enough to cover any error. And because of an error, it does not mean He isn’t a man after Gods own heart because it doesn’t match the religious spirit you are judging through. A spirit of religion divides, condemns, and hurts, tell me how that is Christ like? Jesus never called the prostitute a slut in public and shouted to the people to avoid her at all costs, He condemned them for their lack of forgiveness and grace, and He lovingly told her to go and sin no more. Which is exactly why I asked in the very beginning, if before you publicly went to drag Bills name in the mud, if you went to him and asked him to correct his statement that offended you so?
David, Your obviously not a Dr of Theology lol
Neither was Luke was not a Doctor of Theology. I guess led the scriptures led by the Spirit are not in the Bible. I now must dust my feet off.
PLEASE NO MORE COMMENTS DR. TACHA, UNLESS YOU CHOOSE TO DISCUSS SCRIPTURE. THANK YOU, THE ADMINISTRATION.
Hi David,
How about a Holy Spirit encounter instead of a “love encounter” (whatever that means)? Rather than laying hands on someone & praying for them to be baptized by the holy spirit (lowercase intentional), how about we use words to share the Gospel with them so that they might actually be baptized by the True Holy Spirit.
We are baptized INTO Christ the moment we hear & believe the message of Truth, the Gospel of Salvation (Eph 1:13). The Holy Spirit Himself seals us in Christ.
The Gospel of Salvation (1 Cor 15:1-4) that we must believe in order to be saved is that:
Christ died for our sins,
He was buried,
He rose from the dead.
When we hear & believe this Gospel message, then & only then, is our life transformed (we go from being dead in our sins to being alive in Christ).
Holly, thanks for contending for the faith. God Bless & lead us into all Truth, ~Brenda
Thank you Brenda.
I think many who believe this way believe in a second encounter, or this is about them speaking in tongues, the gift they all push, yet Paul said we should desire the greater gifts. (That could be another whole long story).
They also don’t understand that those who were baptized with John’s baptism hadn’t heard the good news, so they confuse that with some separate happening.
Thank you for responding to David, I pray that he might come to an understanding of the truth with the Lord’s help through studying His Word with God’s approval as his desire.
God bless you and I agree also with what you said, may He lead us into all truth.
Thanks Holly for this article.
You and Kimberrly are correct. There is no way Jesus could have been made an actual sinner and died spiritually needing to be born again spiritually. He became sin for us who knew no sin. He was the SINLESS sacrifice on the cross for our sin. Otherwise He would not have been qualified to be our Savior. If he became an actual sinner then there is no God because God cannot sin. Jesus was the Son of God second person of the Trinity yet still fully man. A person cannot be saved by trusting in a Jesus that sinned but they can be saved by THE Jesus who paid their sin debt on the cross as a perfect substitute.
Jim F
David,
There are such things as core doctrines and fundamentals of the faith against which there can be no compromise. The deity of Christ, sinlessness of Christ, the atonement, resurrection etc are non-negotiable. The amount of falsehood just mentioned in this article is mind numbing! It’s not even close to the truth of the Word of God.
Anyone tied up in this stuff needs to back go the Word of God itself and see exactly what it says about God, man and his need, and eternal salvation.
Jim F
Thank you Jim. I agree, there can be no compromise. This church is preaching another Jesus…
What church denomination are you affiliated with? Do you believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit with evidence of speaking in tongues?
Here is a taste of your own medicine. It was written by a good Spirit filled friend of mine. Are we filled with His demonic presence? Pharisees called Jesus work of setting people free from demons the work of Beelzebub. Jesus said this is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. You heresy hunting hank hanagraff wannabes come close to blaspheming Holy Spirit when you call his presence the devil. You modern Sadducees never heal anybody, deliver anyone or lead thousands to Christ like Bethel does. You are having a form of godliness but denying the power of God. Show me the gift of prejudiced criticism in the Bible. You should humble yourself before God and ask him to set you free from your critical spirit that you are anointed with and fill you with the very tangible love of God. Take your zeal and use it to lead people to Christ. Get a real life and actually follow The Lord Jesus
The pharisees attributed Jesus works as the work of Satan. Many charismatics attribute the work of Satan as being of the Holy Spirit. Big difference!
I believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit, I have experienced it and spoke in tongues. No one laid hands on me for this to happen, I was in personal prayer to the Lord committing my way to Him, seeking His will for my life. I am adding my comment to this section because I am in a Pentecostal denomination and MANY in our fellowship see BJ as a heretic/false teacher. Just so you know that it isn’t just my Baptist brothers and sisters who are of this opinion. There are basics of our Faith that are cannot be compromised. The Word, the Holy Scriptures are the final authority. Do not argue your point, seek the Lord in prayer and fasting. search the Word. Do you know Jesus, the Jesus of the Bible? If you think this blogger is unloving then you have not read what she has written.
Thank you for commenting Renee. One has to be baptized in the Holy Spirit, or they are none of His. It is instantaneous when we believe on Jesus (not just the preaching of John the Baptist).
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Cor 12:13
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Rom 8:9
There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Eph 4:4-6
God bless your week, and may we all continue to dig into His Word, and grow in His grace (Acts 20:32)
In Christ’s love.
David,
I believe believers are baptized with the Spirit but I do not believe in speaking in tongues or other sign gifts.
I was raised Baptist and went to a Baptist Bible college. However, I do not hold to Reformed Baptist views or Lordship Salvation / Calvinism. I also reject ultra king james onlyism sometimes found in Baptist churches.
You can see more of what I believe here in my doctrinal statement.
http://standforthefaith.wordpress.com/doctrinal-statement/
Jim F
I also believe what Holly has stated in her doctrinal statement and we are basically free grace and dispensational in our theology as opposed to Reformed or Covenant.
Jim F
Deneen, sin and doctrinal error are two different things. A prostitute does not = a false prophet and teacher who will cost people their very souls.
You might use the the Word to make your points from now on if you will, this is the difference between error and truth, whether people hear His Word.
So what your saying is, Baptist are going to hell according to Methodists? How about the Catholics, Penticostals? They all disagree on doctrine, making each a false doctrine according to the other….
Each religion will be quite shocked about the people they find in Heaven. You can use the word and twist any verse you want to to make it support any way you stand. I’d rather not get into that game. The word is souly for The Lord and I to communicate, not a tool to slap other people down and condomn them, so I won’t be doing that.
My point is, not if Bill Johnson was wrong in what he said or not, it was the way his name was publicly shamed before any one went to him to discuss the issue. Had they done that, and then explained they had just spoken to him, voiced their concerns, and they are STILL concerned and felt the HOLY SPIRIT lead them to warn people, especially people that in their heart of hearts truely love Jesus, than fine…I myself would be happy to head that warning, as Bill is not my Pastor. But you cannot tell me, that this article was Holy Spirit lead. Jesus is kind, His love covers a multitude of sin. His Holy Spirit guides in love and truth, and LOVINGLY brings people into truth. He does not take to the internet to name and shame! Have a little grace, learn to move in the Spirit to draw people out of darkness to Christ in love. To tell any one they don’t know the real Jesus and they are in darkness because they believe doctrinally different, is not your job, it’s Gods job. And if you would be His hands and feet, He will do the rest, with out condemnation. I believe Catholosism is false doctrine, with all my heart, I do, but that doesn’t mean that not one Catholic cannot know Jesus, that they will lose their soul because they believe a false doctrine. And unless I hear the Holy Spirit leading me to speak to them, than who am I to do that? Maybe they won’t know Jesus the way I know Him, but that does not mean they are going to hell! They should be so in awe of Jesus’s love through me, and so attracted to the freedom that He brings, that they want more than where they are at. Jesus was not dying on the cross saying His blood didn’t cover false doctrine, it covered it all, and then some. Go back to the cross, experience your Savior in a new way, and all you will walk away with is love. You might even be able to lovingly call Bill Johnson and explain many peoples concerns instead of taking offense and running to the first website you find to condemn him.
You seem to forget that New Testament does give us a mandate to expose those who teach false, heretical doctrine. Paul tells us to judge those IN the body of Christ when they preach another gospel. In fact, Paul names and shames many people in his epistles. Dont you love your brothers and sisters enough to point out false teaching? You appear to believe in hyper grace – the notion that you can do or say whatever you like and not be held accountable. Gods love IS CONDITIONAL. By the way, truth is not subjective, its contained in a book. People like you attempt to replace the scriptures with what you ‘feel’ the Holy Spirit might be saying. No doubt you would call someone who quotes scripture, legalistic. Speak the truth in love, but do speak the truth! The way is indeed very narrow.
Deneen,
So beautifully said. It’s like if we speak in tongues or are led by the Spirit or believe in gifts or want to perform miracles that we are deceived by Satan.
Dr. David Tacha
David,
The sign gifts have ceased including tongues.
Deneen,
Which is more likely a sign of being led by the Spirit?
Exposing and warning against error and those who teach it.
Or
Defending those who spread error and false doctrine?
If tongues ceased, then why do millions of people speak in tongues all over the world? I believe you are teaching false doctrine. You deny God’s power in people’s life and the Comforter to all mankind. Examine yourself before you throw stones at other people.
DELETED BY ADMIN.
Verses please.
Jim F 🙂
Defending it, for sure, because it’s done in love, and you just proved my very point. None of the others are being done in love, therefore cannot have Jesus behind it. How very sad, and what an empty life you lead with out speaking in tongues. It is magnificent, and Jesus has more waiting for you. He is deeper and bigger than you could dream. I pray He reveals that to you! Love in Him…
Deneen and David,
Please understand that we have very different takes on cessationism vs continuationism. Those who believe the sign gifts were temporary will be naturally at odds theologically and in ways practically with those who don’t. I believe that the cessationist view is most consistent with scripture. I have heard contrary arguments but I feel they fall short. For one thing, the canon of scripture is complete. Do you both agree with that? How can there be any further special revelation? Part of the problem that the continuation of the sign gifts poses is that it makes it possible for further revelation and makes it an open ended system with much relativity. In that sort of system there is much less of an ability to declare something correct or incorrect, after all, who could declare one person’s revelation to be wrong versus theirs. You’d be left with looking at motive and other things subjectively versus the objectivity of the Word.
Think about the Catholics in how they allow for further revelation from their Pope. Cults are founded on extra biblical “revelation”.
Also, even during the early days of the church, the sign gifts were secondary to preaching. They needed interpretation otherwise they were seen as unprofitable. I Cor 12:31,
1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
1Co 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
1Co 14:7 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped?
1Co 14:8 For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
1Co 14:9 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.
Many who supposedly speak in tongues today do just that – speak into the air – with no interpretation. They would fall short of the expectations set by Paul for the early church. Now with the church being established and the canon closed, there is no reason to continue with that kind of thing. The same goes for healing – Benny Hinn style – and prophesying as in future telling. The actual gift of prophesy in effect today is related to proclaiming the truth – this is tied to preaching.
(Mark 1:8; John 3:5-6; 14:16, 17, 26; 16:8-11; Rom. 8:14, 16, 26, 27; 12:3-8; I Cor. 1:22; 12:4-11, 28; 13:8; 14:21-22; Eph. 1:13-14; 4:7-12)
(1) The Bible, in its original documents, is the inspired Word of God, the written record of His supernatural revelation of Himself to man, absolute in its authority, complete in its revelation, final in its content and without any errors in its statements. Psalms 89:34, John 10:35, II Timothy 3:16, Hebrews 6:18, II Peter 3:16.
(14) The gift of tongues (languages) was a manifestation of the Spirit’s power solely for the demonstration of God’s wisdom, purpose and power in the establishment of the early church and always was in a language that was in use. We believe that tongues fulfilled its purpose in the first century and ceased to be used before the completion of the New Testament. We further believe that the modern tongues movement is not of God. Acts 2:16- 18, I Corinthians 14:22.
There is a lot more that can be said but I’m not looking for a lengthy debate. Just want you both to understand this disagreement is not about motive or love or lack thereof but comes down to differences in the actual interpretation of Bible passages. That is what Holly is saying. If you feel someone is biblical or not,prove it from the Word otherwise we are just talking in circles.
Jim F
Christians who don’t believe in the spiritual gift of tongues, in most cases, won’t ever receive the gift. It comes by faith, Paul fully explains this gift to the early Churches. You are blinded by a doctrinal bias like the Sadducees and people who believe in Evolution.
The gift of tongues is a beautiful gift from the Holy Spirit. Your bias deny’s millions of born again Christians a biblically based experience. There are many more scriptures supporting the gift of tongues other than the standard taken out of text scripture you use in 1Cor. I am a PhD in cancer diagnostics, and I approach the Bible very carefully as truth and good evidence is very important to me. Yes we are in two different camps. But based on the many scriptures that support my premise and the overwhelming evidence world wide, I cannot dismiss this profound experience in my life—- and there is no way you should judge mine and others experiences that have led us closer and more intimate walk with God. Don’t criticize what you don’t understand. I have a deep and intimate walk with God based on solid scriptures. You are on shaky ground to Imply that this a demonic or satanic. I don’t go around having conferences or websites trashing Baptist. God forbid! We are brothers and sisters in Christ and the commandment is clear about being a false winters against your brother. If you go out and feed the poor and you love thy neighbor and you believe Jesus is Lord and God raised Jesus from the dead, then you are saved and I will walk hand in hand with you.
David, you said: “If you go out and feed the poor and you love thy neighbor and you believe Jesus is Lord and God raised Jesus from the dead, then you are saved and I will walk hand in hand with you.”
My comment: I’m not sure that you meant this literally. Do you think only someone who does ALL of these things is saved? Feeding the poor and loving thy neighbor are works that do not contribute one iota to one’s salvation, nor do they constitute reliable evidence or proof that one possesses eternal life.
We are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.
People who teach any other message are preaching “another Jesus”. The Jesus that so many people claim to be head-over-heels in love with is another Jesus. Jesus Christ, my Savior, paid the full price for my sins – past, present, and future. I received the free gift of eternal life through Christ Jesus the moment that I realized that it was free. If I go out and feed the poor and love my neighbor, it may honor God and provide a good witness to other people. But, those things do not make me a Christian.
2 Corinthians 11:3-4:
[3] But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
[4] For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.
Perhaps all of the debate about speaking in tongues and other supposed manifestations of the Holy Spirit is ignoring something much more basic. How does one receive the Holy Spirit?
Galatians 3:2-3:
[2] This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
Thank you John, praying Dr. Tacha might hear. I know one thing, He didn’t die for a saint filled with good works, and He didn’t die for a person who promised and fulfilled future works, nor one who has reached perfection, the only thing that will enter heaven. I am so thankful for the Jesus of the Bible, the Gospel, the Good news, that while we were without Strength Christ (who is Lord-God, the Messiah) died for us. We were not righteous, we were ungodly sinners.
The trouble unfortunately with these types of teachings is they preach another Jesus and may hear this. In this passage, among others, Bill Johnson incorrectly exegetes this to me Jesus is powerless. He also says of miracles that Jesus did them to show us what we could do and more, incorrectly understanding the ‘greater things’ that would be done.
And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him. They understood not that he spake to them of the Father. Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. John 8:23-28
Instead of understanding in this Scripture, Jesus identifying Himself as the great “I Am”, as ‘the Judge’ as one with the Father, they see it as He is unable to do anything, that He has no power. They do not see the Tri-unity in this statement….
The conclusions you both draw Deneen and David are not done with truth. When you tell someone to go feed the widows, orphans, poor, etc, (when you have no idea what it is they do) was made presumably to suggest I do not do these things. You suggest I do not pray for my enemies? Love my neighbor? That’s why I said, you do not understand what you are saying David or Deneen.
You have called us slanderers, stated I have made false statements, but you do not do the very thing you say to do and bring it to me here, publicly. Lay out the ‘false accusation’ in my article, only that.
Where are my false statements? Let’s do this the right way, and you bring the false statements on this blog to light. Give me a specific wrong statement, instead of a blanket condemnation with no substance. Otherwise, we’ll halt the conversation.
Can you continue to defend this man’s actions and false teachings?
Evidently so. What kind of love is that to watch people be led to another Jesus?
I have given plenty of evidence to show that Bill Johnson preaches another Jesus.
Jesus was NOT born again.
Jesus most certainly had supernatural capabilities, fully man, and fully God.
Jesus most certainly had the ability to heal the sick.
Jesus had the power to raise the dead.
Jesus could cast out devils.
When is the last time you both ascended into heaven?
You believe you both have access to the heavenly realms?
In direct contradiction to God’s Word, he lies against the truth over and over in his teachings, he is wolf in sheep’s clothing, and people need warned. The last days most certainly are a time of judgment (even though Bill Johnson doesn’t believe so) and everyone will know by then.
As for doctrine sheriff, I provided plenty of His Word to show we are indeed to take heed to “His Doctrine”, that we do not even wish Godspeed to the one who is not abiding in the doctrine of Christ. I have twisted nothing here, and I most certainly use context. I have not used any unsound speech. Who is it with the lack of love or spirit of religion or accusation?
Don’t believe in healing on demand?
Then Bill Johnson says you are preaching another gospel.
Pretty simple that he stands condemned by his own words, as he goes in for surgery, lives daily with his eyes unhealed and a child that is deaf.
No more unfounded accusations. If you have proof that something is wrong here, then take the citation and go check it out for yourself. Prove all things…test the spirits.
Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition, knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned. Titus 3:10-11
I suggest feeding the poor because I think it would be more productive than playing want to be church sheriff. I do not go to Bethel and you have no idea what I really believe. However, I perceive you believe all charismatic Christians are deceived. Paul the apostle certainly had the discernment of false doctrines and false teachers. But if you can even believe in basic Bible teachings, you should not throw stones when you live in a glass house. To make claims that certain teachings are satanic without ever talking to that person is way off course. This is my last comment with you as you are hopelessly lock into your doctrine bias. I will error with mercy triumphs of judgement. I pray that God will reveal his truth to you and that you really examine yourself. Deneen’s comments were beautifully written and I saw the love in Jesus in her comments.
Dr. David Tacha
Dr David, you simply need to prove it from scripture, not some supposed life experience. The Bible simply doesn’t allow for revelation outside of the closed Canon. If you think otherwise please make us aware of the passage. I have been a believer since age five and have never needed or ever will need an experience that isn’t intended for me anyway. The signs served their purpose during Bible times and are not relevant today. This is not based on bias but study. Funny that you mention evolution.
I was actually thinking of that analogy the other way around. Those who think they can look outside the Bible to so called scientific theories of evolution are no worse than those who look to experience and subjectivity.
What is received by faith is eternal salvation… not speaking in tongues. That’s all I’ll say about that unless you want to deal with specific Bible passages. Besides, Bill Johnson’s errors go well beyond just sign gifts – which was more of the point of this original post.
Jim F
Thank you Jim for your comment, I would like to see that happen, the Word vs. feelings, but the comparison to the Pharisees has been made, it is a favorite of Johnson’s to liken those who try to abide by His Word as Pharisees. If you don’t agree with their experiences, next you may be called a clanging cymbal.
But since this is my blog, I have allowed for questions to be answered quite patiently as the response is innuendo or accusation and no attempt to reason humbly with God’s Word.
Therefore any other statements that are made that are inappropriate, or accusatory (i.e. a ‘spirit of religion’ or ‘no love’, false accuser, etc.) will be blocked out.
I appreciate your patience in laying out the truth.
For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. Hebrews 5:12-14
Thanks Holly, I understand. Not much more needs to be said.
I’m interested though in your take on 1 Cor 13:10. I believe this verse and surrounding passage is the best to refute the idea of continuationism. Some appear to be saying that that which is perfect there is referring to Christ but I believe it is referring to the completed Canon of scripture. If so, then that is your basic argument against continuation of the sign gifts.We simply don’t need them anymore as a sign for non-believeing Jews because we have the completed revelation.
Jim F
Jim,
I do believe in this period of the church age, apostles, prophets, and the sign gifts such as speaking in other languages, and prophecy has ceased once we had the complete Word of God. Besides the passages I know you have seen, the biggest argument I see against the current signs and wonders, is that none that I have seen, follow the Biblical rules for order. The so-called prophets like Bill Johnson or Kris Vallaton are not judged by the perfect standard of His Word. So these manifestations cannot come from Him if the Biblical rules, standards and order is not followed. It’s not hard, the Word lets us know, if they are in error, don’t listen to them.
Look at the ‘prophets’ out there, the supposed ‘good ones’ claiming 40-45% success. Is that God’s standard for a prophet of God?
What about tongues? Do they speak with understanding as Paul concluded? Is there interpretation, do they pray for interpretation? Not that I have ever seen.
I do not say that makes it all demonic, but it has to be fleshly at the very least, as was the case with a lot of the Corinthians. I believe it can be a ‘taught’ manifestation, having friends who have grown up in the movement, many were taught or coerced to start babbling, trusting they’d receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit only in that way. All believers as you know are baptized into the church by the Holy Spirit, or, they are none of His (1 Cor 12:13; Rom 8:9)
Oddly, people like reformed (and lewd imho) Mark Driscoll say those of us who are not continuationists are worldly and also says, cessationism is an ‘enemy of the Gospel’. I’d love to see these type of men who defend these sign gifts, to point out if or when they actually see the correct use of these gifts. To do the ‘judging’ as they are told to do, and tell us exactly WHO they see who is correctly using those gifts (if they indeed have continued), for I sure have not seen it.
The church was built on the foundation of the apostles with Jesus being the chief cornerstone (Eph 2). Certain signs, wonders and miracles were done to establish Jesus was indeed the Messiah as fulfillment of certain prophecies, and to also establish the veracity of Word of God, as the Holy Spirit inspired these men appointed and chosen to write the New Testament.
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Pet 1:19-21
I believe what 2 Tim 3:16-17 tells us, and so I believe the Word is sufficient for everything we need. If it is His Word we will be judged by in the last day (Jn. 12:48), I completely believe we must have all been given all we need, we could only be judged by that which is complete for this time on this earth. Later we know we will know as we are known.
I also think since the two witnesses have great power to do many signs and wonders, and God will turn His attention back to Israel in the tribulation, that some of the gifts will continue again in the time of Jacob’s trouble (at least with the two witnesses). Many false signs and wonders will appear at that time too we know. The oracles of God we know were committed to the Jews, and although Balaam spoke what God told him to, it was recorded by a Jew. I suppose since many of them are replacement in their theology, they now think of themselves as Israel, so I wonder if this has something also to do with the error of Balaam, not just the financial reward, but willing to curse Israel for it.
I have heard both arguments, (and I guess there is a mid-level if you will) one in favor of that perfect not coming until we see face to face (which they either say is Jesus or eternity), and also the other, that which is perfect being the canon of Scripture being closed.
Those who argue in favor of continuation, seem to use the preceding and following passages to argue that knowledge has not ceased and that we don’t yet know as we are known.
I know too that there is some good explanations of the two words used in that passage, ceased, and failed. I can’t quite remember the whole meaning of that, can you elaborate if you remember what it is? One thing I know, is it is easy enough for me to test the spirits, and if I saw somehow, the rules being followed, the prophecy lining up with Scripture, the tongues being spoken with interpretation and in order, I could have nothing to say, as then they could argue it is my interpretation of Scripture vs. theirs. But I’ll deal with that on the day I see if it ever happens.
Yeah, I think they mostly advocate using a “heavenly” language. This is different than the spoken languages of earth that were used in the Bible times. I’ve heard people try to speak in tongues but never saw an interpretation done and I know for sure it was no known language. It was just some type of jibberish they made up. They speak of following the Spirit like you said but the problem is that the Spirit never reveals anything contrary to what was already revealed in scripture… because the canon is closed.
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
2Pe 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
Yes, during the tribulation time the two witnesses will use signs and wonders etc. So will other deceivers as seen in Matthew 24.
Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Also, don’t most charismatics and pentecostals have some for of lordship salvation / repentance for sins version of conversion?
Many of the people saying that their signs testify of their legitimacy believe in a non-saving works gospel. Yet they will accuse us of not following the Holy Spirit’s leading. Go figure.
Jim F
Jim F, I do know that some of the Word of Faith people absolutely advocate either sinless perfection like Joyce Meyer who says she has not sinned (makes her a liar according to 1 John 1) and oddly Kirk Cameron, also says he doesn’t sin.
The common ground between a lot of Charismatics and Pentecostals as well as the reformed/lordship teachers have to do with the person’s works. Sadly, I am very, very afraid that these will be the people saying, “I did these works in your name”… They both have the P in common from TULIP (perseverance of the saints), although they claim to see it differently, with Calvinists claiming it means they have eternal security (that being only if they are the elect, they work to prove that they are) and with those Pentecostals/ Charismatics who believe you can lose your salvation, they work to keep it instead of being kept by Him.
I agree with you sadly, they do point to works, not one work, which is the work of Christ. He is the only one who worked for our salvation, what we must do is believe upon Him as our Savior.
DENEEN: Thank you David, you are right, time to shake the dirt from my sandals. Scripture can be twisted for any denomination, but their is power in our testimony, all of hell could not convince me that God is not the same, yesterday, today and forever. His spirit lives in us, moves through us, does signs and wonders through us, and I wouldn’t have it any other way. No point in wasting even another thought with this! Lots of blessings over you and your family!
ADMINISTRATION: Sorry, with no Scriptures usage after asking time after time, I’ll ask you both to discontinue posting. Thank you, I pray God opens your eyes to His truth.
Thanks Holly, that answers my question. I guess the question covers a large group with many sub groups but I do think I remember Church of Christ and Assemblies of God doctrinal statements that advocated turn from sins for salvation or sinless perfection etc.
Also, I tend to like to those stuck on falsehood to just go their way if there is not going to be consideration of the truth after multiple attempts. Nothing I can do for them but pray for them to see the light one day.
Jim F
Jim – I think there are a number finding themselves in the holiness or sinless perfection who are even outside of those denominations. Ray Comfort is a good example of the turn from sin, stop sinning teaching. I heard he says he does not sin, right along with Joyce Meyer.
I prefer that they do too, (those who want to cling to serious error). I do feel concerned for them and pray for them, but leave them in God’s hands. There is plenty of evidence for them to be able to consider if they want.
I can’t find a good way to make that happen once you have approved one comment, after awhile comments need to be deleted if they have no Scripture and just make accusations. I guess I’ll need to learn a little more about wordpress….
I was noticing that everything that those that “proved falseness” in Bethel used Scripture to BACK UP their exposing… but the ones that just came and used their “experiences” had NO SCRIPTURE in them at all… just a bunch of accusations that they have NO IDEA who and what you do Holly… I have seen you in action… I can attest to your “alms”… I won’t go into them, cause they are TOOO MANY to even put in a post, I could write a BOOK on the generosity the Lord has given to you for others… YOU DOOO LOVE… and you are being accused of not doing these things and being a “sheriff” … I actually take that as a COMPLIMENT…may I be a SHERIFF for the WORD too….
Cause It is what was given to us to LEARN about HIM… they seem to miss it and put it aside and like a dirty rag… SHAME on them!! If you have something to say… USE the WORD to EXHORT, REBUKE, and ADMONISH… they will not use the WORD so therefore they aren’t HEARING His voice in all this… cause they would of heard the WORD that was presented and KNOWN that you posted the WARNING out of the LOVE for HIM, HIS WORD and the BODY of CHRIST!!
I have to just SMH at all this and wonder if they think that cults like mormonism(that believe what they have said you have to believe…to be saved) and Jehovah Witnesses(who also believe the same as what they said) YET… they are PREACHING a DIFFERENT JESUS… one that isn’t GOD in flesh that CAME and DIED and went BACK to the THRONE and is WAITING for His BRIDE to be with Him(and OH I can’t wait for that day!!!)….
So, what would they consider a “cult”? If what they have said to be saved is to just believe in those things(they forget the demons BELIEVE too…yet they as Bethel do not believe Jesus IS GOD! and do not TRUST in JESUS as the NARROW Way! They want MORE MORE MORE…as if HE wasn’t plenty! AAUUGHHH HE IS ENOUGH without ANY experience… The disciples in the BIBLE do not go around saying, “unless you do this or have that FEELING, you are missing out!…. REALLY? Did they miss out? Some did NOT do miracles… some had DIFFERENT gifts and Paul even said that TONGUES was the “lesser gift”… so WHERE do they get it is the EVIDENCE of the FILLING if it was called LESSER? I have to say, He wouldn’t give the “lesser” gift to PROVE He was indwelling someone… that’s ridiculous and there is NO Scripture backing for this position!
I want to say one more thing… the JEWS SEEK A SIGN… and the Lord said that they who do truly do not BELIEVE…cause those that seek anything but HIM…aren’t worthy for the Kingdom..
LOVE?? again y’all bring up LOVE… did Jesus NOT LOVE when He was chasing the THIEVES OUT of the TEMPLE? He is GOD…so, He LOVED TRUTH(that His House would be for worship…NOT for a den of thieves) BEFORE He loved the thief!!…
Holly and others here that DEFEND the TRUTH before man… LOVE more than those that just want the “experience” of ______(whatever can be placed here) Jesus isn’t an experience… if you think so, please for GOODNESS SAKE and for LOVE for US that don’t believe this… PROVIDE BIBLICAL proof for this…cause I have never found it… I don’t see the Lord like this… He spent DECADES writing through Spirit Filled men to complete the Scriptures… you would think He would include some of this “experience schtuff” in it if we were to behave like these ones that are “toking the Holy Ghost” laying on the floor and acting like they have epilepsy… HITTING PUNCHING SLAPPING KICKING each other saying the Lord directed them to do so…
the LORD IS the SAME today as He was Yesterday… READ THE WORD and see if you line UP with HOW the First Disciples did things… and see if asking for the anointing at someones GRAVE is there… or disciples babbling with no interpreter, or transcending other spirits, etc etc etc, ya, It’s LOVE to let people KNOW that JESUS isn’t satan in the mormon religion, it’s LOVE to tell people that Jesus is GOD not just a god in the Jehovah witnesses, and it’s LOVE to tell people that Jesus is NOT the first BORN AGAIN MAN… cause that’s NOT the JESUS of the BIBLE… and that is what LOVE IS… it’s TRUTH and it sets PEOPLE who WANT TO BE FREE… FREE!!
Bless you Holly…. and Jim(thank you for your ministry!!) and others here who are placing their faith in JESUS and what He says in His WORD alone! THAT’S TRUE LOVE!!! and I love you!!
I just started finding out about some of these teachings. I believe Bill Johnson and his staff are getting off into very big error. Messing with the deity of Christ and treating him as if he was just a man without power is not just a minor doctrinal problem. I think bill and many his followers have started to misuse the gifts of the spirit. When you get off into error like that, you open yourself up to a spirit of divination or witchcraft. Donnie Swaggart characterized this accurately once in a sermon titled charismatic witchcraft. Seriously, the gifts of the spirit are not for entertainment!
Always amazes me that people will fight to the death for their favorite preacher instead of fighting to truly understand Gods word!
Thank you for commenting! Sometimes I think it is maybe about them trying to fight for what they have believed, and that tradition or feeling, experience or emotion is hard to let go of, so I pray they will question it in light of God’s Word by testing the spirits, and searching the Scriptures to see if these things are really truth. (Acts 17:11)
im not sure how i stumbled across this, but i am curious about what sorts of scriptures you were asking david and deneen to present?
Any Scriptures that support the myriad of errors of Bill Johnson above. Point by point (brevity please) is always appreciated.
Wow the writer really needs some Jesus love and a wake up call. I pray Jesus you open up the religious “BLIND” eyes of this writer and ALL the people that agree with her. Give her and all the others a blast of your love and Godly perspective. They will definitely need it for whats to come.
Brittany, we speak by using the truth of God’s Word, Bill Johnson preaches another gospel. What do you think is to come? Do you think you will be helping establish His kingdom on this earth? I pray your eyes will be opened, and you will become noble, searching the Scriptures to see if what this man says is true.
It’s funny how whenever a move of God happens that the immediate persecution comes from religious groups who have been so indoctrinated with the doctrines of men that they fail to see the work of their savior in the world. The pharisees persecuted Jesus for healing the sick. This article is no different. The pharisees were appalled at the teachings of Jesus and the seemingly “new doctrines” he was preaching. The truth is that Jesus was not preaching new doctrine, he was separating the truth of God from the man made theology that the previous generations had conjured up out of their own self-righteous ambition.
John 10:37-38 Jesus said, “If I do not do the works of my Father, do not believe me; but if I do them, though you do not believe me, believe the works, so that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father.”
John 14:11-12 Jesus also said, “Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves. Truly, Truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.
John 16:12-13 and again Jesus said, “I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.
These people whom you are trying to discredit are doing the works of the Father, and after so many years of revival, healing, and salvation, their fruit is evident. Did not Jesus openly admit he had more to say, but that the Holy Spirit would reveal what He hears from the Father? Or perhaps you think that God stopped speaking once the Bible was canonized. And yet Paul says, “The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life,” and also, “The kingdom of God does not consist in words, but in power.”
What good is there in trying to slander your brothers and sisters in Christ who are doing such great works by the power of the God through the Holy Spirit? Do you not see the work this kind of slander is doing in the pharisees of old who, “shut off the kingdom of heaven from people; for you do not enter in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.” But I don’t believe that is your heart. For if you truly knew what you were doing you would be heart-broken.
I leave you now with the blessing of Saul, who although he persecuted Christ’s people, Christ came to him and had mercy on him, and used him mightily for God’s kingdom. May it be the same with you.
Thank you for your post. What constitutes a move of God, and how are we to judge it with a righteous judgment? It’s not too hard when Bill Johnson preaches another Jesus, a simple comparison to who Jesus said He is vs. who Bill Johnson says Jesus is, clearly shows Bill Johnson is a false prophet, and not to be compared to the apostles who saw God. My supposed slander is well documented.
And here is a thought for you. If you preach another Jesus, what will be your end? I do pray the Lord has mercy on you, and gives you a hunger and thirst for His Word and a real distaste in your mouth for men’s lies… Lord willing…
This is a statement I heard recently …If you get Jesus wrong, it doesn’t matter what you get right!
The Word Faith Movement believes and teaches the Jesus Born Again doctrine …. That is the most hurtful deception that I have ever heard. Simply heartbreaking to lower Jesus in such a way.
I LOVE MY JESUS … THE PERFECT,SINLESS & SPOTLESS LAMB OF GOD!
Spot on again Arlene. Saying Jesus was the first born-again man, is deception and destructive heresy.
Jesus is, and always was, and always will be, God. He never stopped being God. He was fully God AND fully man, yet did not use all of His powers (could have called the angels), but He was ABLE to use all of His powers (laying down His life AND taking it back up again). He is sinless, and had no need of being born again… They preach ANOTHER Jesus.
Oh, that you would bear with me in a little folly—and indeed you do bear with me. For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it! 2 Cor 11:1-5
They preach another Jesus…
Every religion on earth feed the poor, clothed the naked, visit those in prison, pray for others, etc. etc. We all know that those who are members of a particular denomination all love their pastor, love their teachers and love the members of that particular church. But to say that because these members do so doesn’t neccessarily mean they are in a right standing with the Lord. Jesus makes it very clear in Matt. 7:22,23 that there will be a multitude that will stand before Him on Judgement Day and say, “Lord, Lord, have we not preached the word in Jesus name, have we not case out demons in Jesus name, and have we not done many wonderful works in Jesus name.” And Jesus will say to them, “Depart from Me, for I don’t know who you are.” Now I paraphrase a bit, but you get the point. Now the question one needs to ask here is this, how can these people case out demons and perform many signs and wonders, which Jesus confirms they did, and come up short. Which means they did not make it. There are many pastors, preachers and teachers in churches today that are preaching and teaching things that are not at all in the scriptures. To take one verse of scripture, or not use scripture at all to teach the saints of God, will always result in error. When one belittles Jesus in their teachings and in the books they write, when one claims to speak on behalf of the Holy Spirit and not glorify Christ Jesus, it is a very clear sign to leave that church and anything associated with it. The flesh is having its way far more than anyone wants to admit. These type churches are fleshly, carnal and are true enemies of the Cross of Christ. I do not judege or condemn these people, but my heart breaks for them.
The implication of your scripture reference (2 Corinthians 11:12-15) is out of context. In this section, Paul is defending his apostleship against others who are claiming to be apostles in the Corinthian Church, but are actually trying to take advantage of them.
He later (2 Corinthians 12:12) says in his own defense, “The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with all perseverance, by signs and wonders and miracles.” Therefore the “signs of a true apostle” are “signs wonders and miracles.”
He also pleads as a father for his children urging them to remember that neither her nor the people he sent to them ever tried to take advantage of them.
How can there be false apostles and prophets if there are not real apostles and prophets? and how can you claim the Bible as the word of God and not believe what it says about the structure of the church?
1 Corinthians 12:28 “And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues.”
How can you endorse the double standard of picking and choosing which of these offices are for the church today? You believe in teachers helps and administrators, but not in apostles prophets miracles healings and tongues. How can this be? You say, “dispensationalism!” But where is that in the word of God? Is that not man made theology which you prefer instead of what the word actually says?
You say, “There are no more prophets and apostles,” not because of the word of God, but because of the word of man. Tell me where in the word does it say that these gifts have ceased? Anyone who preaches those words have contradicted the very words of Jesus himself. Do you not know that the word “Christ” means “Messiah” which means “anointed”? Jesus Christ is Jesus “the anointed.” Anointed by who and with what? Anointed by God with the Holy Spirit (Luke 3:22).
Do you not know that the word “Anti-Christ” actually means “against the anointing.” It’s not even talking about being against Jesus himself, but it’s the spirit that is against the anointing of the Holy Spirit that was upon Jesus to do the signs miracles and wonders that he performed. You are partnering with the spirit of anti-christ in the world without even realizing it! Ant-Christ wants to stop the work of signs wonders healings and miracles. These works were so important to the ministry that Jesus said “Do not believe me if I do no do the works of my Father.” What were the works of the Father? The works that only God’s power can accomplish; the work of signs wonders and miracles.
“Greater works than these will he do; because I go to the Father.” Why must he go to the Father? John 16:7 “But I tell you the truth, it is to your advantage that I go away; for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.” He must go so the Holy Spirit may come. What happens when the Spirit comes? Acts 1:8 “but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth.”
Why are we called Christians? Do you not think they understood the meaning of the word “christ” in Jesus’ day? We are Christians because we too are anointed ones. We are anointed with the Holy Spirit who abides with us and in us forever. How else could we do “greater works”? Dispense with man made theology. Stop partnering with the enemy against your own body. Start believing the message of Jesus.
We will have to get this right. No Anti-Christ, does not actually mean “against the anointing”.
Anti-Christ is to be against THE ANOINTED. Christos means; the Anointed One, the Messiah, the Christ. Antichrist is antichristos, which is one who opposes Christ (Christos). Bill Johnson by His preaching of another Jesus is sadly such a one.
I’ve been a Christian for a long, long time. I have recently come to really enjoy all those Christians’ sermons and messages. I’m not going to defend them, because like Jesus, they don’t need defending.
What I will do is pray that you will pray to God for revelation from the Holy Spirit to show you that these people are doing the work of God and that you are bashing God’s people, just like the Pharisees did to Jesus himself.
It’s sickening to see the church fight against the real truth in Satan’s attempt to hide the truth! He’s a deceiver!
In your research, did you listen to any of these people’s messages through the lens of the Word, or did you already have a bias when you listened? I haven’t heard a single thing from any of the messages or books that I’ve personally read from those that you are accusing that made me question their hearts or message.
If you’ve purposely taken something out of context for your blog here,
I pray that you will open your eyes and re-investigate.
I have been physically healed and have prayed in faith that God would heal people around me and they are healed. Is the power of the Holy Spirit in my life, fake, as you are accusing of these people?
Don’t base your judgment of any of these people on stories that you’ve heard. Base it on your own ears and the Holy Spirit.
The Pharisees also thought that they were protecting God from the blasphemer who was actually Jesus Christ in the flesh and they would have died in their deceit!
In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, I pray that their eyes would be opened to the Truth of Your Word!
Bless these people who are SO very against the Christians who are on the same team!
Give them grace and mercy as they have already “convicted” Your children and soften their hearts to want to know You and Your Truth!
Reveal any deceit and hard-heartedness and do a mighty work in their lives so that they know that only You could have been responsible for it!
I pray for a miracle to show up in the life of anyone willing to take this back to Your throne for clarification, just because You love them, that much! Thank You for loving us in spite of ourselves and what we think we know to be correct. Make us teachable and moldable to shine Your light in this dark, dark world and help us to not work against Your will! In the name of the Most Holy, Amen.
Think about this for a minute. Even if there was something wrong with any of these people’s theologies (which I haven’t seen, yet; but they are human, so they can be wrong at some point, just like you or I), does that make them a non-Christian or anti-Christ?
Are they speaking against what you consider to lead to Salvation?
If they are leading people to the same Christ that you serve, even if you disagree with everything else, who is wrong, you or them? Shame on you if you prevent even ONE person from coming to Christ because of your attempt to protect the same Jesus that you claim to love and serve!
You seem very articulate and passionate about this, so please, please make SURE that you aren’t working against my Lord and Savior!
God loves you SO VERY much and I pray for some revelation and peace about this all!
Heidi – I am sorry your email was missed. I bolded some of your comment so I could answer them more easily. I also put some spaces in, so it could be read more easily by others. Now, I’ll answer you.
As for the Pharisees, they did not have God’s Word in them, nor did they listen to the testimony of Jesus that was in the Scriptures even though they searched those same Scriptures, and they would not come to Him that they might have life. They thought it was blasphemy for Jesus to be equal with God. This is one of Bill Johnson’s errors, not mine. I have come to Him that I might have life. And I do believe who He says He is. He is the great “I AM”.
The true church exposes the unfruitful deeds of darkness to the light (Eph 5:11), and warns others, as well as marking and avoiding (Rom 16:17-18) the false doctrine. That is what I have done here, I am not fighting against the ‘true church’. Real love rejoices in truth…
You say you haven’t heard a single thing that makes you question their heart or their message. I have nothing to do with questioning another person’s heart, the Lord desires that none should perish. Their message however, I am most certainly to hold up to the light of His Word and it doesn’t pass the test. That was based on my own eyes and ears, against the Word of God, and if you cannot discern the error, I pray you will get into the strong meat of His Word (Heb 5:12-14) so you will be able to do so. I pray too that you will be teachable and moldable by His truth alone.
Yes, they are speaking against what leads to salvation. We are not on the same team. Bill Johnson says any gospel that does not contain signs and wonders is a false gospel. That is adding to God’s Word, is false, and so he is corrupting minds from the simplicity that is in Christ, and he is preaching another Jesus. (2 Cor 11).
It will be worse then shame for the one who does not the will of the Father by justifies himself/herself by his ‘wonderful works’ and signs and wonders. It will be worse than shame for the one who does not have Christ’s righteousness instead of their own. Isaiah 66:2, and Psalm 50:16-17 is pretty clear on those who twist His Word. You suggest I twisted somehow what Bill Johnson said. I did not. But you might be more concerned with whether Bill Johnson has twisted God’s Word, and he has. Consider where your allegiance lies.
I will give you the same warning you gave me. Please make sure you aren’t working against the Lord Jesus Christ, who is my Savior. God loves everyone, but He hates a lie. Satan is the father of all lies, yes he is a deceiver. The revelation I need is found in God’s Word, and if the revelation you are listening to, does not line up with God’s Word, and you do not test it, you will be judged by that same Word (as we all will be), in the end.
Please, ask yourself, why do I think I am saved. Answer me here if you would like. Share the gospel with me. What is it to you Heidi?
You have not shown him or anyone else in this post to be preaching “another” Jesus. How have they done this? What you have done is misinterpreted, misquoted, and misrepresented both the Word of God and men and women of God in order to discredit the work they are doing for Christ in the world. Neither did you respond to the Word of God which stands in stark contrast to everything you have said. Yes, the Messiah is, of course, the “Anointed One.” If you are against the Anointed One, you are against His anointing. And we are anointed with the same Holy Spirit. In 1 John 4:17 John says, “as He is, so also are we in this world.” Jesus said, “I am the light of the world.” Jesus also said, “you are the light of the world.” When Jesus sent out his disciples he gave them authority to do the same things he had been doing.
Why are you so vehement in your crusade against the work of the Holy Spirit in the world? What set you on this course? You speak these things against people through whom the Holy Spirit is working. Why? You do not even know them. You don’t know their hearts. You cannot deny the power. And what would you say about that power? Would you say it is of the devil or demonic? Be careful, (I say this with sincerity) please don’t blaspheme our sweet Holy Spirit. Or do you need to be reminded of what Jesus said on the matter?
As to the source of their power. Do you really think the devil has that kind of power? and why would satan work against himself? Don’t you know of the untold numbers coming to Christ through this movement of God? As Jesus said, “any city or house divided against itself will not stand.”
Your reference of Isaiah 66:2 has nothing to do with the statement it’s supposed to address. In fact, your use of scripture in this article has been misapplied and out-of-context. You make claims about other’s teachings that are obviously mischaracterized, out of context, and intended to twist their true meaning. From what I have seen, you’re understanding of scripture is not only lacking, but also dominated by man made doctrines that inhibit your ability to properly understand and believe in its truth.
Phew…Sounds harsh I know, but can you honestly address everything I’ve spoken to you, all of the scripture I have given you, without twisting it or filtering it through the dirty lenses of man made doctrines? I do not say any of this to shame or belittle you. You are better than this. There is no honor or love in this kind of work. Although my rhetoric may sound heated, I am not angry. I am merely passionate about the truth for you in particular. I pray that you do not dismiss my words and that you would feel the weight of them in your heart. May the Holy Spirit Himself guide you into all truth, and may you in earnest sincerity seek out the truth as a diligent student of the word. Dismiss me if you will, but the Holy Spirit will show you Himself with kindness, gentleness, and love (and less words). I hope you have a good night.
Yes Satan is able to perform powerful signs, lying wonders, able to deceive those who have not a love of the truth…There are many antichrists that have come since the beginning.
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 2 Thess 2:8-10
Isaiah 66:2 has a lot to do with what I am trying to address, no respect from these false prophets for God’s Word. I also suggest Psalm 50:16-17 as a rebuke and warning to them.
If my Scripture had been out of context, you might have actually compared and contrasted to the correct contrast instead of making broad sweeping accusations. My statements were careful, documented, and are not hard to find or prove, so isn’t it is you that are slandering/libeling since you speak these things in public (and in writing) that are untrue?
You might actually look up context on the one you used, 1 John 4:17. You use it to suggest I am against Jesus, because He is the anointed one and I am against His anointing. Start from the beginning of the book and ask Him to show you, and to help you lose your own pre-conceived notions of what is correct. He is not an author of confusion. Those who will to do His will, will know the doctrine, whether it is from the Father.
Bill Johnson’s methods of confusion, and preaching another Jesus are not the anointing that comes from Him, let me be quite clear. Jesus had POWER to take up life, just as HE said, not a lack of power as Bill Johnson falsely preached. He misuses and misunderstands and wrests Scriptures to His own destruction. Jesus is NOT the first born again man as again BJ falsely teaches. You had better be sure the light in you is not actually darkness, for how great a darkness it is…
Seek the Lord, abide in His Word. Do you labor for the food that will never perish, or for a false prophet that you have not even tested?
I can only say, you must not have read the post. I’m really not sure if you will hear, but go back and read, and if the Jesus described by Bill Johnson is your Jesus, you may be in trouble too. I spent plenty of time to document, so why don’t you tell me which things about Jesus are true that Bill Johnson said in the article. Try addressing points and keep it brief and without accusations if you are able, this is about His truth and I will not compromise it because someone cannot make their case without accusations or making it personal. Make your case in a brief and orderly manner if you will. Thank you.
ok look, in my bethelized church.. we were encouraged to fully & I do mean fully embrace ALL of everything that was coming out of BETHEL… we would have prayer meetings & endless personal ministry where leaders would impart the PRESENCE OF GOD to the people.. on the face of it we were told the presence was very stong in our midst, that amazing miracles signs & wonders were occurring…… so in the context of that environment you would expect I high indication & obvious demonstration of the fruit of the spirit right (Galatians 5)
under expectation that grace abounds – honour abounds one to another… we found that leaders – are the very ones pushing this , the ones who had been to Bethel – received the anointing, the impartation – were behaving in a completely domineering, restrictive & hypocritical manner… we found there was no grace to ask a question about thing s if there was an implication of disagreement… actually what we got was character assassinated, threats, mistrust… & yes we uncovered exaggeration of outcomes of miracles, signs & wonders & in one case an out & out lie made by the senior pastor through Facebook
so Im asking you guys who are defending Bethel the same questions I asked my self at the time… If we are operating (as a body of believers) at a high level under the Holy Presence of God – if it is truly the Holy spirit in our midst, if truly we have Heaven or the culture of Heaven on Earth going on – that as a group of people we are striving for, praying for & cultivating in our lifestyles… how come it DOESNT MATCH the reality with what’s really happening in line with what Galatians 5 teaches… & what is the only conclusion you can draw from that?
Thank you for sharing Zazzy. I wish some might ask some questions and dig into His Word instead of defending it, or saying they don’t ‘agree with all the doctrine’. We are definitely to take heed to the doctrine. Some of the things I ended up not posting were pretty much character assassinations, questions of me having the Spirit at all, no questions, no defense, just an attack for having touched him. No it’s never slander when you speak the truth. I continue to ask which part is not true and of course it would be removed. But they tend to generalize and or avoid it all together.
Thank you for sharing your testimony of how it affected your church, glad you were able to see. In Christ’s love.
Thank you for your comment Zazzy, I pray they will consider.
Reblogged this on Rooftops & Rafters.
A better question might be: What constitutes a false prophet? I think we can all agree: It is not a term we should apply carelessly.
From Scripture, we can ascertain that false prophets will be known by their fruit (Mt 7:16), they will deny Jesus has come in the flesh (1 John 4:2-3), they will make up stories and be manipulative (2 Peter 2:3), they will make up myths and geneologies (1 Tim 1:4), and they will secretly introduce destructive heresies(2 Pet 2:1). Additionally, they will have a form of godliness but deny God’s power (2 TIm 3:4-5), and also: they will be accepted by established religion (Lk 6:26).
Unfortunately, none of these criteria seem to apply to the points made in this article. Bill Johnson’s views concerning Jesus may be something Holly disagrees with (and might I add: Churches have always and will disagree on numerous theological points), but they certainly do not constitute false apostleship, if the Word of God is our guide.
To be specific, in the seven years I attended Bethel, not once did I hear Bill Johnson or any of the leadership deny the divinity of Jesus or claim that Jesus had not come in the flesh. Nor in fairness does this article claim he does. The question at hand has to do specifically with the finer theological point concerning Jesus’ act of humbling himself and becoming flesh, and the extent to which He divested himself of authority to become one of us. The question is not: Is Jesus God? But rather, “To what extent did Jesus humble Himself while on earth and identify with mankind? As scripture states, Jesus “being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. (Phil 2:6).
And contrary to the claim of this article, it was in fact Jesus who said, “I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.” (John 5:19) Bible teachers will tell you the phrase translated “I tell you the truth” is strongly emphasizing the claim. Jesus is saying, “You can take this to the bank.” To suggest then that Jesus did not say this, or mean this — or to state as this article does, that “The Bible says differently” — is in fact to deny the very Word of God we say we uphold.
Now did Jesus also state He had the power to lay down His life and the power to take it up again? Absolutely. So how do we reconcile these two apparently contradictory statements? For starters, what we do NOT do is claim one is true and the other is false, and anyone who says otherwise is a false prophet. We are commanded to rightly divide the word of God, not carelessly divide it. Part of that process involves refraining from assuming we have all the answers but instead take a posture of humility and teachability, as well as refraining from making rash judgments about others and things in Scripture we do not fully understand. Lastly, it involves depending on God for answers, for he has promised that He will lead us into all truth. I must admit: I do not see much of these qualities demonstrated in this article, and that above all else makes me distrust the motivation behind it.
But for those who are more comfortable with loose ends tied, I would like to suggest two possible answers to these apparently contradictory statements. First: When Jesus spoke of His power to lay his life down, He was referring to his choice to die, not his power to do as He pleased while on Earth in human form.
Second, Jesus could also be referring to the big picture of His choice to become man AND to die. But having made this decision, it would not mean he was not in fact limited in power and wholly dependent on the Father, once having made the decision. Imagine willingly choosing to become a prisoner in a state prison for a week in order to assist those inside, and willingly divesting yourself of the rights you had on the outside in order to do so. You had the power to make that decision, but once inside, you clearly did not have the same power as you once did, having made it. So the concept of Jesus having the power to humble himself and become a man is not incompatible with the claim He Himself makes: I can do nothing apart from the Father.
Which do I believe to be true? Honestly I do not know. I simply do not have all the answers, but I trust the Spirit of God to continue to reveal them to me just as I trust him to do so with those reading this article and these comments.
The ironic thing here is that I do not think Bethel is a perfect church doctrinally speaking; then again, I have yet to find one that is (and I doubt my doctrine is perfect either). One of the things that I found very healthy about the Bethel culture is that a) The leadership expected and encouraged its church members to be responsible for their own spiritual growth, and to answer for themselves questions to finer points of Christian doctrine, for no one is necessarily going to have all that they say perfectly right (but Jesus will as we listen); b) In the years I attended Bethel, I never once heard Bill Johnson or the leadership ever criticize or demonize another church body or church movement. I think that is an example worth emulating in all seasons we find ourselves.
Cheers and Blessings
Jesus did nothing apart from the Father’s will, they were one. Let’s look at John 5 in context which is terribly important, I’m sure you will agree. This is a passage that reinforces the trinity, God being one, not separate Gods. This passage in no way speaks of any inability of Jesus who was, is, and is to come, the Great I AM. The Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the Creator. Anyone (as Bill Johnson who says otherwise) is denying Jesus is God.
I am reminded of Israel being told on more than one occasion in the OT, “the Lord our God is one Lord”. We see this repeated in Mark 12, where Jesus also speaks on the title of Son of David and the Prophecy regarding the Christ. We see there that Jesus is Lord (kyrios, God, the Messiah), and not David, but the Son of David, the Messiah.
Unlike what Bill Johnson said, (that Jesus was unable, had no power, to give life to someone), this passage says the Son is unable to do anything apart from the Father (“of Himself”), but He is God, just as the Father also is, as they are one, equally God. Remember, this was the problem in the first place, they did not like it that Jesus made Himself equal with God by saying He worked on the Sabbath just as His Father did. But He is God, all powerful.
Because Bill Johnson uses the words stating he believes that Jesus came as man, does not mean he is confessing Jesus is God come in the flesh, to the contrary, he denies this by his teachings that Jesus had no power to heal. He puts words in God’s mouth.
Jesus also said in that same chapter of John 5, that He gave life to whomever He wished, and that also all judgment and execution of judgment was given to Him. Jesus did not lay down His power and suddenly as God, not have the ability to raise someone from the dead. Nor is He (God) the first born again man. This is a false and heretical teaching.
You gave a few verses, but all throughout scripture we are given the parameters for prophets, and Bill Johnson on careful examination meets none, and is not a true prophet of God. Why? Because he is wrong. Over and over. And he contradicts His Word, and exalts his own words over Gods. God does not lie, nor does He contradict His Word.
You do what you wish, but I would rather emulate the people I was told to pattern myself after. Paul, John, Jude, Peter, etc., so I will continue to name names of those who do not abide in the doctrine of Christ (as Bill Johnson does not). I would rather be obedient to God’s Word to mark and avoid them, and not even so much as wish them godspeed so I do not share in their evil deeds.
The one thing I pray is that those they are deceiving may somehow see the truth, and that the Lord will expose their works to the light (which He will some day). Until then, it is what obedient believers are called to do.
The time is short, I will choose God’s Word over men’s (or women) and I will continue to test the spirits and prove all things, and hold fast to that good. God Bless people to see the truth.
Thank you Holly for your response.
I would feel much better about your line of reasoning, and your conclusion, if Jesus had in fact said, “I tell you the truth, the Son chooses to do nothing by himself; he chooses to do only what he sees his Father doing.” (John 5:19) Bible. And yet the Word of God cannot be broken. It is this very question you have failed to answer for yourself, namely: How is it that Jesus, being God, can do nothing? If we say, “He did not mean what He said,” then it is we who are false in our teaching and should be marked and avoided.
I would also feel much better about your conclusions if Mr. Johnson had actually said Jesus was just a man. What he in fact said, as you quoted, is: “He put self-imposed restrictions on Himself” and “Jesus . . . emptied Himself.” That is, He humbled himself by becoming a man. This speaks of His humanity as well as His divinity. Now if Mr. Johnson had said Jesus did not have the ability to humble himself, to divest himself of His glorified state, that this was never in His power to do (or that Jesus had not actually taken the form of a man and actually shared in humanity, on the other hand, we would have a big problem, instead of a minor theological difference. The reason it is a minor theological difference is because Jesus’ divinity is not at stake. The question is: To what extent did Jesus divest Himself in becoming man? Now it is Johnson’s contention that he limited himself while on earth as a man to show what was possible to all mankind. I believe this is the part that rubs you the wrong way.
But is this a reasonably Biblical view? I would say it is, since Jesus Himself says, “I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.” If Jesus had said, “The things i do, you cannot do, for they are a sign of my divinity and reserved exclusively to me, as God,” then I would say Johnson’s view would be not reasonable.
Now it sounds as though your contention is that when Jesus said, “I can do nothing,” it meant that he could do nothing, not out of lack of capability, but out of necessity. That is, because He is God, just as the Father is God, that He can never do what the Father is not doing, any more than the “me” or “myself” parts of me can do anything apart from the “I” part of me — because they are the same person. This is an intriguing idea. However, the problem is: This is not the view of the relationship we see between Jesus and the Father (and the Holy Spirit for that matter) in the Bible. According to Scripture, they are separate Persons, and not only this, they are in willing (not necessary) submission to one another — something else Jesus says we share in, and modeled for us by His life on Earth.
Blessings
I missed this, so I’ll keep it brief, and ask you if you will do the same, and let’s use context. The verse before clearly recognizes Jesus as equal with God, we know also He is the Lord of the Sabbath.
What I said when I quoted the Bible in the parentheses was (‘of himself’, Gr: Apo heautou). This is meaning a separation of a part from the whole. This is not as Bill Johnson supposes which means that Jesus had NO POWER (his words) on His own. It means they can DO (poieo) nothing “of themselves”, (apart from each other). Again, this is not the same as choosing not to exercise power to call 10,000 angels. We will not agree on this point from Bill Johnson’s viewpoint. What I mean exactly is they do nothing apart from themselves, meaning on their own, for themselves. They may have different characteristics in their persons, but they do not do things apart on their own, equally God. Never was Jesus without power, He is God. So I think we’ve probably covered this point extensively enough. Look at all the other ‘minor’ things like portal travel, angel dust, glory clouds, gems falling, etc., and tell me this is comparable to a conservative evangelical church somehow…
I just don’t see it.
This is wrongly dividing the Word of Truth.
I cannot help you on your feelings, but Jesus again, is not a born-again man. He is God, Always was God, and always will be God, and the Lord of Glory was still the Lord of Glory when He was crucified.
Thank you, Holly. Agreed on covering this point extensively enough. My main point is not that I agree with Johnson’s interpretation but rather it in no way constitutes false apostleship or heresy by any definition. The core doctrines of Jesus as both God and man are not in question; the question has to do with what Jesus meant when He himself said He “cannot”. Your interpretation is valid, but your choice to build this into grounds for heresy is not. (this is my closing statement).
I thought we were talking about doctrine, not practice. But it may be you are saying a church that experiences signs and wonders cannot be doctrinally conservative. If that is your position, then I must say “I just don’t see it.” I do not need to tell you that from cover to cover, Scripture is filled with accounts of miraculous events, nor that we are told that with God all things are possible, nor that we are commanded to have faith in God’s ability to do above and beyond what we could ask or imagine.
You may however not be convinced of every miraculous story you may hear about. Quite honestly, I am not either (I am not referring to Bethel specifically here). But this does not make it non-doctrinal. The only way we can build it into a doctrinal issue is if we a) Do not believe God is able to demonstrate miraculous signs and wonders, b) establish some crtieria for determining what is an “acceptable” miraculous sign/wonder, and what is not.
We can talk about how in the last times there will be many performing signs and wonders who are false, but that does not help us to much, for the very reason they will lead many astray is that signs and wonders is exactly what the church will be performing also. This is also why Jesus did not say to us, “know them by their signs and wonders.” He said (in context), “Know them by their fruit.” So I suppose my question would be: If the signs and wonders you hear about from Bethel are false, what signs and wonders do you see in your own church, and how can we know they are legitimate?
I agree that fruits spoken of in Matt 7 speaks of knowing false prophets by their doctrine. So I think you have convinced me to do a follow up post, on exactly what makes Bill Johnson and his church, school and other ‘prophets’ false. Look for part 2 🙂
I know I gave way more than the definition you attributed to me as why he is a false prophecies, but this one alone should be enough.
Jesus is not a born again man. False doctrine. False teacher. Heresy.
But I am considering a follow-up article covering that particular point, thank you. (didn’t finish my thought before I pressed to send comment)
Thanks Holly for the thoughtful dialogue appreciated it
You’re welcome, and actually you helped me, I’m learning to be more specific, and to the point, so I will absolutely do an article on just the doctrinal issues of Bill Johnson and Bethel. Thanks again, In Jesus Christ, and only for Him.
Since you were there so many years, I wonder if you can expound on Bill Johnson’s gospel message (regarding salvation), not his kingdom domininist one, but what is the actual gospel? Couldn’t find it on his sites. I challenge you to go on bjm.org and search for the gospel. See if you can find me a gospel message that tells one what Jesus Christ came for and accomplished, and what one must believe/do in order to be saved.
I went to Bethel and searched for ‘gospel there’. When I clicked on either podcast, ironically the error was, “It would seem logical that this page would be here, but its not.”
I would disagree, with all of Bill Johnson’s teachings I have read, it is very logical the gospel is glaringly absent.
Gladly. His gospel message is pretty much the same as the other conservative evangelical churches I have visited or been a member of over the past twenty years. The gospel was regularly preached including altar calls, as was the core teachings concerning baptism, the importance of the Word of God, tithing, etc.
Can you find me one message that contains that gospel message, what you must do to be saved? I’d appreciate it. Or even in the statement of faith, the gospel message laid out with the Word. Tithing was given to Israel and is not a part of the gospel message of course. The church has plenty of their own instruction regarding giving and taking care of their own, but tithing was for the Levitical priests, and has not transferred to the church.
But just the gospel if you would, with the Word of God being used.
I love Bill Johnson! Pray for my soul if you like but he inspires me to study the Bible and to pursue God and the fruit of his ministry and church in my life is healing, peace, joy and hope. Reading this blog has sadly given me none of those things 🙂
Jon, praying for you to gain a love for the truth before it’s too late. Don’t go by your feelings, go by His Word. This blog is for His glory, to obey His Word to mark and avoid these kinds of people, only the Lord brings true healing, and His peace He gave to us and left with those of us who have believed on His name. If you have, consider that Bill Johnson has blasphemed the way of truth and many are following him to swift destruction… What I do, is for Him, for the body of Christ, for His name’s sake, it is not to please myself. Lean on the Scriptures for your hope, your comfort, your learning, your growing in grace, not man…
Make sure you are not loving Bill Johnson above what is written in God’s Word…
And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another. 1 Cor 4:6
But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. 2 Pet 2:1-2
We then who are strong ought to bear with the scruples of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let each of us please his neighbor for his good, leading to edification. For even Christ did not please Himself; but as it is written, “The reproaches of those who reproached You fell on Me.” For whatever things were written before were written for our learning, that we through the patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope. Rom 15:3-4
And now, behold, I know that ye all, among whom I have gone preaching the kingdom of God, shall see my face no more.
Wherefore I take you to record this day, that I am pure from the blood of all men.
For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.
Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. Acts 20:15-32
I went to bethel church as I live in Redding Ca. They have a starbucks coffee inside the church and its open even during services. Whats next a burger king and pizza hut? Am I right in calling this out as wrong? And what about this new bethel thing of orb chasing? Does anybody have further info about that?
Please read the article, the orb reference has a cross reference at the bottom. There is many more problems than these phoney signs and wonders…
I have two questions. 1. where did you get the picture to represent the ascended lifestyle? 2. Do you feel (literal) the love, hope, peace, and Joy that you have by faith in believing? do you ever feel the presence of God ?
On the picture, there are plenty available on the ‘ascended lifestyle’, just look for yourself, morguefile.com is one that is free.
On your second question, Yes, I feel the literal fruit that comes by the Holy Spirit. And I thank Him for discernment, and the strong meat of His Word, whereby I am also able to know false prophets by their fruits. The Lord dwells in my heart by faith (Eph 3:17) and is with me always. I do notice that the word ‘feel’ seems to be your gauge. I hope that you will learn to walk by faith and not by sight, and that faith comes in hearing the Word of God. We should rely on His Word first, not feelings basically is what I am saying 🙂
In Christ, Holly
No, feelings are not my guage at all, It is only by my faith in his word first, that I just like you, “feel” the gifts of his spirit in peace, love, hope, Joy, etc all in believing, not sight. Taking every thought, feeling and emotion captive to his word. I dont have to “feel” to believe, but it does come with believing. Thanks and many Blessings
Sharon, true, many emotions have accompanied my growing in His grace. Thankfulness, praise, tears, joy, songs in my heart. May the dear Lord bless your week. In Christ, Holly
So if you don’t like a comment do you delete it? I replied to someone’s comment and left a comment but both are gone.
Each church has a unique calling according to God’s purpose and if you don’t agree with a church’s teachings why slander them? Have you truly heard from God that this church is out of whack or is this your personal opinion? This blog sadly smacks of religion. At the end of the day if the people are going to God and meeting with God then who cares in the how? God will deal with them, not you. I have to also ask if it is about the fact Bethel has become well known as well. Hillsong had the same issues when they started out!
These “testimonies” of previous members could also be false as I have learnt that when a person is disciplined because they are living in sin or made a mistake they take to the world to slander the church that tried to help them.
What I want is for you to give me concrete proof that Bill Johnson is telling his congregation to worship him and not God. Until then you can’t call them a cult or slander them as you are judging them for something that God could’ve called them to be. If he is taking them to God who are you to say it is wrong?
Jesus did radical things, the apostles did things that are weird and unknown of. How can you limit God by saying what they’re doing is wrong if Jesus Himself did things that were unheard of? God is the God of the impossible – stop putting Him in a box.
It’s not about not ‘liking’ a comment, I’ve had far worse than yours on the Bill Johnson post. I will let this one be approved, so some people might understand the reason for not allowing posts that have no intent of honest and kind discussion. As far as proof, there is plenty here, and not just past testimonies had you read instead of coming out swinging 🙂 A common comment is regarding “God in a box”, God has given us His Word that we might ‘prove all things’, that is your job (1 Thess 5:21). As for bad doctrine? That is the job of every believer (Rom 16:17-18). May the Lord open your eyes.
But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. 2 Tim 2:23-26
This blog was… how do I say it? Relevant!! Finally
I’ve found something that helped me. Thank you!
“You shall know them by their fruit”. Look at the fruit… so much fruit.
I am afraid you are right, just not good fruit. Bad fruit, bad doctrine….
the bethelites I have encountered run from gathering to gathering looking for the next sign or wonder, pull people out of churches to run from church to church. they have described bizarre things that frankly, have no place in scripture. and I am Pentecostal! a little discernment goes a long way…
I have studied Bill Johnson, Kris Vollaton, and many of the group at Bethel with a very skeptical mind for over three years. Unlike most of you people here who simply drink the cool-aid without researching it on your own, I did the research. Most of these accusations are from their father the accuser of the brethren. Facebook is full of people who drink the cool-aid without question. It is all too common.
Unfortunately, most people like this are nothing more than parrots repeating what others say without validation. And then they carry their nose at full mast declaring their own righteousness and perfection. They don’t seem to realize that this is also sin, and that there is no large or small sin with God. And they also don’t seem to realize that they may be perpetuating outright lies and character assassination, which is murder of their character, not just the flesh. Nearly every one of the ten commandments are being broken here, and yet they claim to do it in righteousness. This is a sad, sad world we live in.
The enemy of the saints come but for only to kill peoples character, steal their reputations, and destroy a ministry. The people that do this are doing the work of their father the devil. The people that perpetuate it and add their own destructive criticism are also.
The Lord calls all of us to repentance. Remember, there is no such thing as a LITTLE white lie, or a lie perpetuated by lack of personal investigation. If you get upset with this, it is probably from the Holy Spirit or a heart hardened to the truth.
It’s a sleight of hand. they keep them entertained by their ‘miracles’ and fantastic stories of angels and grave anointing and when they do use the Word they add to it and twist it. People need the Word of God, I suggest people from Bethel just really read through the book of John, find out all His names and titles and investigate it and see if Jesus came without power, or did His miracles to show us what we could do.
“Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?
So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
So then, you will know them by their fruits.” Matthew 7:15-20
Bethel Church, its leadership, and its ministries have influenced and changed uncountable lives for the Kingdom of God in Jesus Christ’s name… Including mine.
That’s Good Fruit.
Heidi Baker (Iris Ministries): “We are closely affiliated with Bethel Church in Redding, California, and belong to the Revival Alliance and also the Partners in Harvest network of churches.” In 1995 they started a new ministry to the poor and homeless children in Mozambique and since then have seen 10,000 churches established in over 20 nations.
That’s Good Fruit. This list of “proofs” could go on endlessly.
Now what is your fruit? Is your fruit this blog post? Leading handfuls to rail against what you believe to be false?
How productive for God’s Kingdom….
Stop wasting time trying to discredit things you don’t understand and have faith that God is big enough and strong enough to take care of His own gospel. If anything is false, their fruit will tell, and God will do the discrediting, not you.
“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.”
Matthew 7:19
Be careful not to raise your battle standard so hastily against something you don’t agree with or understand OR believe to be false doctrine…. I do recall the Pharisees doing something similar in their time against the Son of God himself.
(Now if we’re talking about a gospel that says Jesus Christ is not the Son of God; we have a different ball game.
“Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.” – 1 John 4:15)
Let’s fight against our true enemy (satan and his demons) together instead of fighting our own appendages (Body of Christ) just because the foot doesn’t understand the role of the hand.
God Bless
William, whether Bill Johnson and Heidi Baker ever knew the Lord is up to Him to reveal when the sons of God are revealed at the end. Right now, according to the fruits we were told we would know the false prophets by; their doctrine, makes apparent they are false prophets. Jesus did not say that we would KNOW them by their many wonderful works as somehow you are trying to prove. If you read, you will see they DID many ‘wonderful works’ and they were false prophets.
Wherefore by their fruits (not by their works) ye shall know them.
WHAT FRUITS?
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;
>>>but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (If you want to know what the will is, go prayerfully read John 6:38-40)
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? (You need to know that Biblical prophetic standards are 100% or we are not to listen to them)
and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done MANY WONDERFUL WORKS? (See John 6:28-29 for what we should justify ourselves by. Our works, or His work on the cross?)
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: (See John 10:14)
depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matthew 7:20-23 (See Romans 10:3)
Do you not find it odd that you give Bethel Church, it’s leadership, and it’s ministries the glory for influencing and changing lives for the Kingdom of God you say, in Jesus Christ’s name?
These same false prophets were also calling Him by name.
Heidi Baker unfortunately is also a false prophet, so no matter how many wonderful works she may do in His name, it will not help her. No matter how many ‘churches’ are planted, it will not save.
You asked, “How productive for God’s kingdom am I?” The Bible says, I do not do my ‘alms’ (good deeds) in public, and I don’t let my left hand know what my right hand is doing. My Master will be the One who makes me stand.
We need to know what ‘confessing that Jesus is the Son of God’ means, and it certainly does not mean that He was unable to perform miracles, and that He did these things to show us what we could do better. These miracles were attestation of WHO He is.
The Lord Jesus Christ.
Kyrios Iesous Christos
Which means some, but not all of these things: God, the Messiah, Jehovah is salvation, Our Saviour, Immanuel, God with us, The anointed One, the Son of God.
Contrary to what Bill Johnson said, Jesus DID have ability to heal the sick, He COULD and DID cast out demons and He DID have ‘ability’ to raise the dead. Contrary to the falsehood of Bill Johnson, JESUS had the POWER to take up His own life again since He was God, so He did NOT perform miracles as a “man in a right relationship with God”. He performed miracles attesting to Israel as to WHO He was, and WHY He had come as the Scriptures foretold.
Bill Johnson describes a totally different Jesus by taking John 5:19 completely out of context. This verse means they both are in Unity and He could not perform these miracles except that He WAS God. These were the miracles the OT prophets had said He would do, proving He was God, the Savior.
Bill Johnson had better consider Psalm 50:16-17 and Isaiah 66:2 before He twists God’s Word to somehow support his false signs and wonders…
Thanks for posting this Holly
The assembly my wife and I are attending they said they will be singing a Jesus Culture song this weekend so i went looking for information on Jesus Culture and found your blog . I went to their website under doctrine and did find
“Anyone can be restored to fellowship with God through repenting, believing and receiving Jesus as their Savior and Lord” Jesus Culture Sacremento CA .
The above quote is a false gospel its another gospel and not The Gospel.
Also there is no gospel presentation that I have found on website.
I didn’t know anything about Jesus Culture until today. I liked the song I was listening too. But got that prompting that i need to check out the spirit behind the music and what they believe.
Thanks for posting once again
God bless you sister defending the clear simple Gospel of Grace
Curtis
Thank you Curtis. Unfortunately, they are a very talented band, and sing with a lot of emotion. Lyrics matter, so I look them up. Some are extremely unsound. I am glad you ‘proved all things’, in this day and age, sure holding fast to that which is good! In Christ, God bless you both, Holly
I think that you are siding with the devil against The Man of God. Instead of trying to prove how wrong Bill Johnson is, how many miracles are happening in your ministry? Your comments on this Servant of God are so disgusting until I hope people pays them no attention. I accidentally stumbled upon your website and hope no one ever read any of your attacks on Bill Johnson.
Dear James, what you think, and what is true, are two different things. This website is well documented on these false teachings, that if you agree with, and you say nothing, and wish him God speed, you are actually partaking with his evil deeds (2 John 1:9-11).
Question: If Bill Johnson says, there has to miracles (of his fleshly kind) present for it to BE the gospel, then why oh why is he still wearing glasses? His wife? Has his son been healed? Why not?
May the Lord open your eyes to the truth of His Gospel.
Christ died for your sins James. Everything you have ever done in the past, present and what you will do in the future.
As the wages of sin is death, and we all have sinned, Jesus died and was buried in your place, and mine too.
He rose again from the dead. Why? Because He said He had the POWER to take His life back up again (the very thing Bill Johnson said He did not have the power to do.). He did this to show He was the firstfruits of many who would be believe and also will rise again.
One thing we were warned to look for is the ‘fruits’ of these false prophets. The teachings that come out of their mouths. Remember, what Jesus said about their fruits:
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Matt 7:20-23
Careful who you follow James. Be sure you have understood the gospel. Don’t let these men deceive you, prove all things by His Word (1 Thess 5:21), test the spirits (1 John 4:1), search the Scriptures to see if these things are so.
God bless you to seek Him first. Not the signs.
A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.” And He left them and departed. Matt 16:4
Kevin
I pray you would seek the word of God asking for wisdom and understanding , .. Let Bill Johnson be Bill Johnson
Thank you Curtis, I pray in agreement with you.
when Simon saw ……he offered them money, Saying, Give me also this power
Act 8:18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
Act 8:19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
Act 8:20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
Act 8:21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
Act 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
Act 8:23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.
Amen Curtis! Perfect passage for what is going on here… Praise God for His Written Word, that so many in these types of churches cast behind them in favor of some ‘new revelation’….
But unto the wicked God saith,
What hast thou to do to declare my statutes,
or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth?
Seeing thou hatest instruction,
and castest my words behind thee. Psalm 50:16-17
Jesus Culture has come to Sacramento. I went to the first service back in December after our dear friends invited us . Danny Silk was the pastor who spoke. He seems very arrogant and I didn’t enjoy his message. He was also very long winded and did more talking about himself, then preaching the gospel. I decided to go again because I thought maybe my reservations were brought on by me trying out a new church. The second time I went, 4 women got on stage and started prophesying to people randomly picked in the audience. Their statements about these people were very generic and I got a weird feeling and felt very uncomfortable, but again I went because I hoped it was just my reservations about going to a new church. Everyone I had spoken with about this church had nothing but good things to say. Then my friends told me about this retreat they went to and about dancing with Jesus and God and just very strange stuff that again gave me a weird tug in my heart. Last Sunday night, Danny Silk spoke again and this time he preached about God being in charge, but not in control. It was weird and I didn’t agree with that at all. God is sovereign over creation. He is the Alpha and the Omega, he is also our sustainer. Mr. Silk never gave any real scripture to back up the point he was trying to make. Plus, once again he jumped around and I felt uncomfortable with the point of his message. I started to really question whether this man was being led by a spirit other than the Holy Spirit. He also said not to be concerned about what’s happening in the world today. What? God tells us to keep our lamp oil filled and be ready for when the groom arrives. Is he saying we should dismiss it like it isn’t happening. I totally disagreed with that statement. God tells us not to worry or have a spirit of fear. However, he doesn’t say to turn a blind eye to what’s happening. We need to be aware and pray. I decided after that I wasn’t going anymore and I certainly wasn’t going to allow this church to have any influence on my kids who are teenagers. I want God’s truth preached to them. Not false doctrines. Sadly, my kids were disappointed that we are not going back. I told my daughter relationship with Christ is not about an emotional feeling or experience. Our relationship with Him goes much deeper than that. There will be times when we won’t have those good warm fuzzy feelings or no feeling at all. Should we then turn our back on God? We love and served God in the good and the bad. We lean on Him for strength and ask the Holy Spirit to guide our lives no matter what crosses our path in life. There are some dangerous religious groups out there and Christians need to be aware. Thanks for your post.
Erin Sanchez
Erin, I am so glad you got your children out of there. We are strengthened by God’s Word (Ps 119:25,28), and we are made disciples by abiding in it (John 8:31). This is how we grow closer to Him, by knowing what He is telling us, not some false prophet telling us what His Word says. We can’t trust our feelings we know, you are right. But we can trust God’s Word which brings light into our lives (Ps 119:130).
My boys and I were reading Prov. 22 a couple days ago, and I told them, they could not always personalize Scripture, but I was talking to them about vs. 17-21, about inclining their ears to hear His Word, and applying their heart to His knowledge. And if so, it will be pleasant for them, to keep it always ready on their lips. I told them that He says so that our trust will be in Him, He has instructed us, even me (Holly), He has written to ME excellent things of counsels and knowledge, He made known to me the certainty of His Word of truth so I could answer words of truth to those who send for me. I used their name in that, and explained that we can pray for wisdom, and we can apply ourselves to it, in His Word. 1 Thess 5:21 has been really important to me with all the error at there (Prove all things, hold fast to that which is good). The Word is good, the Lord is good to the children of men (Ps 107), but these men are all about what you said, emotional feelings and counterfeit experiences, and it will destroy people in the end.
Love in Christ, I pray your children will learn to grow by studying His Word and talking to Him as they do. Holly Garcia
Thanks for your research, Holly. I never heard of Bill Johnson or any of the others you had mentioned. I did come across the Bohemian Grove however. I also saw a picture of the gigantic owl there. It’s bizarre how far into deception one can go if they don’t stay strong in His Word. I’m not that well versed yet, Lord willing I will be one day :), but even I while reading this said “What????” numerous times. Some of the blatant remarks are so unscriptural it leads me to believe that majority of people don’t pick up a Bible at all or simply don’t believe it is truly the Word of God. “Farting” angels? This whole getting slayed in the spirit? I believe they may be dealing with a spirit alright but it’s certainly not the Holy Spirit. Talking in tongues was more about an actual language not some nonsense babbling that is supposed to be a secret prayer language? That angels speak or some other craziness? I believe that came from Kenneth Copeland. Amazing how these false teachers and such have all these possessions as private jets, million dollar homes, fancy cars, etc and yet no one thinks to question any of it. And the whole plant a seed and get money crowd? I believe it does actually have a name but my apologies my brain is not working well at the moment :). To think that God is somehow an ATM that dispenses cash is absurd. It aches deep inside when I see all these false teachings coming in and going around and it’s almost like no one has eyes or ears anymore. The more I try to warn others of false doctrine the more I hear things like, “You are going overboard”, “You are overthinking everything,” “Good people go to heaven it’s simple”. They just don’t get it. It seems like you open your mouth to speak about the Lord and people seem to automatically go “oh no”. My best friend from high school says she is more into native American teaching with animals and mother nature. I told her just because you are comfortable with something or believe what you want doesn’t make it true or false. At the end of the day truth will still be truth whether you believe it or not. It seems Satan has done a terrific job of convincing a lot of people the Bible isn’t God’s Word to us. I think these different variations of it certainly aren’t helping. I’m slowly bringing my mother around I hope. I keep trying to plant little seeds with my husband and hopefully get him interested. I try with my children as well.
If I could politely ask for your prayers for my family. My stepfather was always atheist but somehow he’s now agnostic so I believe there’s room for progress. My mother is one who believes if you are a good person you go to heaven. I believe she’s slowly getting it as she’s one who will allow me to go on about our Lord. My husband? It saddens me but he seems uninterested. I sent him Yankee’s presentation of the Gospel from youtube, etc. I’ll bring it up so here’s hoping the Lord helps.
Sorry for the rant. You all know how long one could go on about the condition of the world we live in nowadays.
In Christ,
Bobbie Jo
Bobbie Jo, maybe print out Jack’s letter, or write your own to your mom. I wrote one to a good friend here also, it’s called “Dear John”. Anyways, sometimes just knowing their objections and/or doubts and being able to answer them in writing so the person can consider at their leisure. You are already on my list, but will put your family on <3
https://redeemingmoments.com/2013/09/30/a-plea-to-consider-believing-on-jesus/
Thank you, Holly. That is a wonderful idea about the prayer of our beloved brother Jack. 🙂 It’s funny you had mentioned this as I already texted her the link to your site. She did read it too. And I quote her text back to me…..”I kept reading n reading till my eyes hurt I meant that was so true what was said.” I’m praying the Lord opens her eyes and leads her home. Through our Lord I was able to plant the seed. Now I’m waiting for Him to water it so to speak. 🙂
As far as all the comments on this article oh my word! The defense of signs and miracles and what not is truly alarming.
Was it or was it not our Lord Himself who said, “A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas. And he left them, and departed.” (Matthew 16:4)
“Whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away” (1 Cor. 13:8).
“Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.” (1 Corinthians 14:22)
“For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.” (II Corinthians 11:4)
“For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.” (II Corinthians 11:13-15)
Satan will always appeal to our fleshly, carnal nature. It seems this is his best deception is to make people “feel” their god. Man wants to touch, smell, hear and taste their experiences. This is all a deception. Not from God. This is disgraceful to the Lord Jesus Christ as it turns His Word into some kind of carnival sideshow.
The gift of tongues was given so that unbelievers would believe in the Gospel message the apostles were preaching. And it wasn’t babbling but real language of the people present. The purpose of tongues was a sign to the unbelieving Jews that salvation was for the Gentiles also which is why the different languages spoken. Clearly this is no longer needed. Today we have the Bible, God’s written Word to us. These gifts are no longer needed.
The incoherent babbling, gibberish, barking, laughing, and oinking today are not close to the Spirit’s gift, which was only and always definite human languages capable of translation ((Acts 2:1-11; 10:46; I Cor 14:21-22)
And please understand that false miracles are also able to be done by Satan. I hear a lot people asking “why would Satan do good and heal people? This has to be from God.” Please understand that’s human reasoning. Satan will seemingly do good if the end result is your destruction. Think of when someone wants something from you. Some are extra “nice” and then they say something like, “Can I ask a favor of you?” Same exact thing. I pray anyone deceived can open their eyes to the deceptions all around them. Pray for discernment to see. I hope you will humble yourselves.
Praying some may see too Bobbie. I have a friend who was ‘healed’ in a similar movement, and she has suffered greatly since. I am praying for a healing from God, and for all the scars of that false movement to be removed from her sweet spirit.
I believe the following is a pretty clear cut example the Gospel being preached. It was found here: (BETHEL’S ‘WE BELIEVE’ site), (Scripture references added by me) and it says:
================================================================
“…We are saved by God’s grace, through faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ. (Eph 2:8..) Anyone can be restored to fellowship with God (Rom. 5:10..)through repenting,(Acts 2:38) believing and receiving Jesus as their Savior and Lord (Col. 2:6). The Holy Spirit, convicts, regenerates, justifies, and adopts us as we enter the Kingdom of God as His sons and daughters…”
================================================================
This is not all that is written on this page but, and I could be wrong, though I do not believe so, I see the Gospel clearly stated.
Just saying….
Robert – thank you for responding, sure appreciate you coming to read.
This is not the only place where they have their gospel, and it’s changed a couple of times, I hope for the better, as their definition of repent used to = turn from sins.
I do not judge their salvation, but whether they are or are not believers, which ones may or may not be, is up to the Lord, but their doctrine, the false and phony signs and wonders, and the maligning of God’s good name by these types of manifestations, need publicly corrected.
In Jesus Christ eternally, Holly
Wow. I am very disturbed by what I just read about Bill Johnson, Jesus Culture, and Bethel Church- one of the most apostate church organizations I ever heard of. I am against their damnable Word of Faith/prosperity teachings, which are also propagated by Joel Osteen and all his buddies on TBN. As far as spiritual experiences, I do believe it is possible to feel God’s presence (I personally have experienced it many times- and LOVED IT!) and His still small voice (usually inaudible- I have experienced that a lot too), but I am very uncomfortable with the extremes of mysticism that Bethel Church promotes; slain in the Spirit, speaking in tongues, out of body experiences, meditative chanting, and all this other signs and wonders nonsense. Also, when Jesus went to “hell,” He went to the paradise component (or Abraham’s bosom) to deliver the righteous dead to Heaven- that’s what Bethel Church gets wrong.
This is so sad. When I was a brand new believer 26 yrs ago and rather stumbling around back then-I met a couple who I loved and really looked up to. They ended up leaving my church after a few years and I caught up with them on FB a few years back and I was shocked to see they were all into Bethel and a guy named Graham Cooke. They have also sent their kids to The Bethel School of supernatural where they met their spouses etc, while I married a Bible Believing Baptist. Grieving for them.
Sheila – thank you so much for joining us. Anyone of any age is capable of falling into error. I think on Paul warning the elders day and night for three years in tears. These were ELDERS…
Anyways, we all need each other to check out what the Word says in alignment to what they say. I am sorry for your friends, praying for them with you that they might see. Love in Christ.
Holly,
I have conversed with you on the ‘Notes From a Retired Preacher’ blog. I am currently reading some of the comments here and will comment later. Meanwhile, per your challenge above, I found the statement below on the Bethel Church website. Apparently it is an Assemblies of God Church and not a Word of Faith Church as someone mentioned. Here is the statement:
Bethel Church is affiliated with the Assemblies of God and is part of the Northern California and Nevada District. As an Assembly of God Church, we adhere to the 16 basic tenets of faith of the Assemblies of God:
The Inspired Scriptures
The Scriptures, both the Old and New Testaments, are verbally inspired of God and are the revelation of God to man, the infallible, authoritative rule of faith and conduct. (2 Timothy 3:15-17, 1 Thessalonians 2:13, 2 Peter 1:21)
The One True God
The one true God has revealed Himself as the eternally self-existent “I AM”, the Creator of heaven and earth, the Redeemer of mankind. He has further revealed Himself as embodying the principles of relationship and association as Father, Son and Holy Ghost. (Deuteronomy 6:4, Isaiah 43:10-11, Matthew 28:19, Luke 3:22)
The Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ
The Lord Jesus Christ is the eternal Son of God. The Scriptures declare:
His virgin birth (Matthew 1:23, Luke 1:31, Luke 1:35)
His sinless life (Hebrews 7:26, 1 Peter 2:22)
His miracles (Acts 2:22, Acts 10:38)
His substitutionary work on the cross (1 Corinthians 15:3, 2 Corinthians 5:21)
His bodily resurrection from the dead (Matthew 28:6, Luke 24:39, 1 Corinthians 15:4)
His exaltation to the right hand of God (Acts 1:9, Acts 1:11, Acts 2:33, Philippians 2:9-11, Hebrews 1:3)
The Fall of Man
Man was created good and upright; for God said, “Let us make man in our own image, after our likeness.” However, man by voluntary transgression fell and thereby incurred not only physical death but also spiritual death, which is separation from God. (Genesis 1:26-27, Genesis 2:17, Genesis 3:6, Romans 5:12-19)
The Salvation of Man
Man’s only hope of redemption is through the shed blood of Jesus Christ the Son of God.
Conditions to Salvation
Salvation is received through repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ. By the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost, being justified by grace through faith, man becomes an heir of God, according to the hope of eternal life. (Luke 24:47, John 3:3, Romans 10:13-15, Ephesians 2:8, Titus 2:11, Titus 3:5-7)
Evidences of Salvation
The inward evidence of salvation is the direct witness of the Spirit (Romans 8:16). The outward evidence to all men is a life of righteousness and true holiness. (Ephesians 4:24, Titus 2:12)
The Ordinances of the Church
Baptism in Water
The ordinance of baptism by immersion is commanded by the Scriptures. All who repent and believe on Christ as Savior and Lord are to be baptized. Thus they declare to the world that they have died with Christ and that they also have been raised with Him to walk in newness of life. (Matthew 28:19, Mark 16:16, Acts 10:47-48, Romans 6:4)
Holy Communion
The Lord’s Supper, consisting of the elements – bread and the fruit of the vine – is the symbol expressing our sharing the divine nature of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Peter 1:4), a memorial of His suffering and death (1 Corinthians 11:26), and is enjoined on all believers “till He come!”
The Baptism in the Holy Ghost
All believers are entitled to and should ardently expect and earnestly seek the promise of the Father, the baptism in the Holy Ghost and fire, according to the command of our Lord Jesus Christ. This was the normal experience of all in the early Christian Church. With it comes the endowment of power for life and service, the bestowment of the gifts and their uses in the work of the ministry (Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4, Acts 1:8, 1 Corinthians 12:1-31). This experience is distinct from and subsequent to the experience of the new birth (Acts 8:12-17, Acts 10:44-46, Acts 11:14-16, Acts 15:7-9). With the baptism in the Holy Ghost come such experiences as: an overflowing fullness of the Spirit (John 7:37-39, Acts 4:8), a deepened reverence for God (Acts 2:43, Hebrews 12:28), an intensified consecration to God and dedication to His work (Acts 2:42), and a more active love for Christ, for His Word and for the lost (Mark 16:20).
The Initial Physical Evidence of the Baptism in the Holy Ghost
The baptism of believers in the Holy Ghost is witnessed by the initial physical sign of speaking with other tongues as the Spirit of God gives them utterance (Acts 2:4). The speaking in tongues in this instance is the same in essence as the gift of tongues, but is different in purpose and use (1 Corinthians 12:4-10, 1 Corinthians 12:28).
Sanctification
Sanctification is an act of separation from that which is evil and of dedication unto God (Romans 12:1-2, 1 Thessalonians 5:23, Hebrews 13:12). The Scriptures teach a life of “holiness without which no man shall see the Lord” (Hebrews 12:14). By the power of the Holy Ghost we are able to obey the command: “Be ye holy, for I am holy” (1 Peter 1:15-16). Sanctification is realized in the believer by recognizing his identification with Christ in His death and resurrection, and by the faith reckoning daily upon the fact of that union, and by offering every faculty continually to the dominion of the Holy Spirit (Romans 6:1-11, Romans 6:13, Romans 8:13, Galatians 2:20, Philippians 2:12-13, 1 Peter 1:5).
The Church and Its Mission
The Church is the Body of Christ, the habitation of God through the Spirit, with divine appointments for the fulfillment of her great commission. Each believer, born of the Spirit, is an integral part of the General Assembly and Church of the Firstborn, which are written in heaven (Ephesians 1:22-23, Ephesians 2:22, Hebrews 12:23). Since God’s purpose concerning man is to seek and to save that which is lost, to be worshipped by man, and to build a body of believers in the image of His Son, the priority reason for being of the Assemblies of God as part of the Church is:
To be an agency of God for evangelizing the world (Acts 1:8, Matthew 28:19-20, Mark 16:15-16)
To be a corporate body in which man may worship God (1 Corinthians 12:13)
To be a channel of God’s purpose to build a body of saints being perfected in the image of His Son (Ephesians 4:11-16, 1 Corinthians 12:28, 1 Corinthians 14:12)
The Assemblies of God exists expressly to give continuing emphasis to this reason for being in the New Testament apostolic pattern by teaching and encouraging believers to be baptized in the Holy Spirit. This experience:
Enables them to evangelize in the power of the Spirit with accompanying supernatural signs (Mark 16:15-20, Acts 4:29-31, Hebrews 2:3-4)
Adds a necessary dimension to worshipful relationship with God (1 Corinthians 2:10-16, 1 Corinthians 12, 1 Corinthians 13, 1 Corinthians 14)
Enables them to respond to the full working of the Holy Spirit in expression of fruit and gifts and ministries as in New Testament times for the edifying of the body of Christ (Galatians 5:22-26, 1 Corinthians 14:12, Ephesians 4:11-12, 1 Corinthians 12:28, Colossians 1:29)
The Ministry
A divinely called and scripturally ordained ministry has been provided by our Lord for the threefold purpose of leading the Church in:
Evangelization of the world (Mark 16:15-20)
Worship of God (John 4:23-24)
Building a body of saints being perfected in the image of His Son (Ephesians 4:11-16)
Divine Healing
Divine healing is an integral part of the gospel. Deliverance from sickness is provided for in the atonement, and is the privilege of all believers (Isaiah 53:4-5, Matthew 8:16-17, James 5:14-16).
The Blessed Hope
The resurrection of those who have fallen asleep in Christ and their translation together with those who are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord is the imminent and blessed hope of the church (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, Romans 8:23, Titus 2:13, 1 Corinthians 15:51-52).
The Millennial Reign of Christ
The second coming of Christ includes the rapture of the saints, which is our blessed hope, followed by the visible return of Christ with His saints to reign on earth for one thousand years (Zechariah 14:5, Matthew 24:27, Matthew 24:30, Revelation 1:7, Revelation 19:11-14, Revelation 20:1-6). This millennial reign will bring the salvation of national Israel (Ezekiel 37:21-22, Zephaniah 3:19-20, Romans 11:26-27), and the establishment of universal peace (Isaiah 11:6-9, Psalms 72:3-8, Micah 4:3-4).
The Final Judgment
There will be a final judgment in which the wicked dead will be raised and judged according to their works. Whosoever is not found written in the Book of Life, together with the devil and his angels, the beast and the false prophet, will be consigned to the everlasting punishment in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death (Matthew 25:46, Mark 9:43-48, Revelation 19:20, Revelation 20:11-15, Revelation 21:8).
The New Heavens and the New Earth
We, according to His promise, look for a new heaven and a new earth wherein dwelleth righteousness. (2 Peter 3:13, Revelation 21, Revelation 22)
Thank you for sharing your research. Something that caught my attention is their prayer chapel that has a big pyramid on the roof and inside there is what looks like more weird new age symbols… a ball sitting on top of a flat rectangle and it’s right underneath the pyramid. If anyone knows what that’s about please share it.
Gwadaloupe, appreciate you sharing, I noticed much there too since I went to look. They also have the compass on the ground, I updated some of that tonight. God bless.
What they are teaching is error and not supported biblically. We have however according to scripture been given authority in Jesus name to cast out devils, heal the sick, raise the dead. The word says that “these signs will follow them that believe” read the final chapter of the book of Mark. We have been given authority in the name of Jesus. That was not done away with, the name of Jesus has not lost its power neither did the Holy Spirit. Jesus himself said that we can do greater works then he did. I believe him. The devil likes to always twist Gods word and create this to instill fear in the people of God so that they can remain hidden and unexposed. Which is why we need to seek the Holy Spirit and abide in the word and not be led astray. The Lord says for everything to be done in order. I feel saddened that these kids are deceived and so many are being deceived which is why we need to seek even more the Lord. Not every manifestation is of God. But the word does say that the “pure” in heart will see God. We need to be purified and be in Gods presence daily. Also you mentioned Smith Wigglesworth and you call him a false prophet? How so? That man taught holiness and obediance to Christ. I would be careful in name calling because though there are false prophets there are also true prophets of the Lord. We need to pray for discernment and the leading of Gods Holy Spirit. I agree with you on everything else, no such thing as grave sucking, or taking a dead mans annointing. The only annointing we should be calling and asking for is the annointing of the Holy Ghost. God Bless and thank you for exposing the lies and putting light to the truth. Bless you in Jesus.
Erika – thank you for your comment, and I’ll do my best to understand if you’ll permit me to ask you this way. May I ask, do you do greater works than Jesus? If so, would you please share which blind person you have seen healed by your faith, or which lame person has walked? If you believe Him, has it happened yet? I am not saying I do not believe God heals, I do believe it and have seen it. Just that we do not see what we have seen back when He was alive, there were a lot more miracles. The days grow shorter.
May I suggest instead the greater works we do are in seeing people spiritually raised from the dead unto life? As far as Matthew 16, may I also ask, have you cast out devils? Spoken in an understandable foreign language that glorified the works of God and another interpreted and understood? Have you taken up a poison serpent, been bitten and lived? Have you drunk poison yet and survived? How many sick have you laid hands on and they have been made well? Are you in the hospitals now attending to business if so?
I am not mocking you, I am just suggesting we ask, to whom and what purpose certain Scriptures were spoken. The manifestation of the truth of the ministry of the apostles and the foundation of the church were built on these things. I have been perfected forever by one Sacrifice (Heb 10:10,14), Jesus purified me and made me a new creation (2 Cor 5:17). I am pure in heart, only because Christ is my righteousness – Rom 10:4), and He has given me a new heart in Him.
The Word tells us discernment comes by being in the ‘strong meat’ of God’s Word (Heb 5:12-14). We should absolutely be careful when we mark and avoid another (Rom 16:17-18) and it should be done by searching His Word (Acts 17:11). As far as Smith Wigglesworth, it would take a separate stand alone article to go over his many errors. One is a separate baptism of the Holy Spirit apart from believing upon Jesus Christ and Him crucified (vs. John’s Baptism), and the Word is clear, if you do not have the Spirit, you are none of His (Rom 8:9) and not a part of His body (1 Cor 12:13, Eph 4:4-6). He was part of the Manifest Sons of God, taught Latter Rain (not as the correct understanding of Scripture), prophesied many false prophecies, and in his own bibliography talked about how the Roman Catholic mass just made him weep with a broken heart (in a good way). Let me tell you, the RC Mass is false, we do not eat the literal body, nor drink the literal blood of Christ, nor is He sacrificed again, it was once for all (again Heb 10:10, 14). Look at his associations with the World council of churches. Do you believe his prayed over handkerchiefs brought healing to all? He did. I do not. The woman who ‘laid hands on him to baptize him with the Holy Spirit’ was an invalid for the last 16 years of her life. What does that tell you?
As far as his ‘tongues gave him discernment and direct revelation from God’? Then why did he not understand Roman Catholicism was a false gospel, instead he said it ‘took away’ all suspicion regarding their doctrine. I’d say that was a direct lack of discernment.
There is so much more about Smith Wigglesworth, just because someone preaches holiness does not mean they rightly understand it. Because they say they teach obedience to Christ, doesn’t mean they obey Christ. Because one calls himself a preacher of God, doesn’t make it so, nor does one have discernment because they say they do.
I do pray you will prayerfully search the Scriptures regarding the claims of these people. As far as ‘calling and asking for the anointing of the Spirit’, the Word tells us clearly, if we believe, we have His anointing when we have believed. Don’t let others seduce you regarding that.
These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 1 John 2:26-27
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Rom 8:9
For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us. Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God; who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts. 2 Cor 1:20-22
Just so you know Malachi prophesies that the spirit of Elijah is coming, Jesus confirmed that John the Baptist carried the Elijah anointing. Not all charismatic churches “ignore” scripture. And what you deem “charisma” is Holy Spirit. What? Did you think the Spirit of G-d could live INSIDE of your chest and crazy things wouldn’t happen to you? Maybe you don’t actually have Him. There are some strange opinions at bethel, but you’ve got some listed here that I think you are misguided about.
Malachi 4:5-6, Matthew 11:13-19
Zach, I am familiar with the prophecy of Elijah, also consider Mal 3:1 that Jesus was referencing in Matthew 11. John the Baptist was that witness of the first coming of the Lord, and I believe he was specifically prophesied about as I believe one or both of the witnesses in Rev 11, which will be the second coming of the Lord. I don’t believe it’s some ‘anointing’ available to all.
Secondly as far as the accusation that I don’t actually have the Spirit. You know, that doesn’t come from the voice of my Shepherd (Jn 10:4), but that is the voice of the accuser of the brethren (Rev 12:10). The Holy Spirit is not the author of confusion (1 Cor 14:33), so no, I don’t believe somehow these ‘crazy things’ happen to me as we see at Bethel. What I do know, is that He is my Comforter (Jn 14:16) who is with me forever. The One who has sealed me, who teaches me, guides me into all truth (Jn 16:13) by His anointing when I believed (1 Jn 2:27), and brings God’s Word to my remembrance (Jn 14:26) as God’s Word is truth (Jn 17:17). His Spirit witnesses with mine that I am a child of God (Rom 8:16) because I have believed the witness God has given of His Son (1 Jn 5:9-13), and therefore I was given the free gift of eternal life (Rom 6:23).
I pray that you too know whether or not you have eternal life, and will consider proving all things by God’s Word (1 Thess 5:21) and not by ‘crazy’ experiences, signs, wonders, manifestations, (or anything at all that doesn’t line up with the truth of God’s Word — which remember, He magnifies above His name-Ps 138:2).
In Christ, Holly
Zach
the very fact that you do not type out the word “God” GOD , is a tell to me that you are either religious or superstitious or a mixture of both
Yes i know the Hebrews out of deep respect will not type out GOD
so are you Hebrew ? if so what tribe ?
a soul does not become spiritual in anything they do a soul becomes spiritual in their thinking .
in a round about way Zach you remind me of a Nicodemus ” how can God live in your chest ?
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind
Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God
Thank you Curtis for your post, unfortunately many determine beliefs by their own feelings rather than the truth of God’s Word.
I don’t know if Elijah is coming again. He may come again, but why do people assume he will be one of the two witnesses? Just because he brought fire from Heaven? Jesus said John was the Elijah who was to come; whatever he meant by that, and I don’t know why preachers automatically believe the two witnesses are Moses and Elijah? They go outside what is written and just assume these are the two witnesses. I think maybe the two witnesses are a Jew and a Gentile, because they are ” The Two Olive Trees” The two olive trees are defined as the cultivated olive tree and the olive tree wild by nature (Rom 11:24) representing Jews and Gentiles, so I think probably they are a Jew and a Gentile working together in the end times tribulation.
Brad, I don’t know if He is coming again, I’ve heard Elijah, Enoch (Gentile) and Moses along with some who believe the witnesses are entirely different people. You say, “They go outside what is written and just assume these are the two witnesses”. Maybe some do, I haven’t heard anyone teach without a doubt, this is who the witnesses will be. But usually it is because of the two accounts of the Transfiguration, and Moses and Elijah are there with Jesus. Some say Enoch and Elijah because neither died. It is not clear in Scripture (that I can see). The prophecy in Malachi is spoken to Israel, and it has not yet been fulfilled upon them as we know He came unto His own and His own received Him not. They are still looking for Elijah. They asked John the Baptist if he was Elijah and he said no, so Scriptures seems to point to the fact it will be a literal Elijah still coming to make straight the way of the Lord for Israel.
John came “In the spirit of Elijah” that’s why he denied being Elijah himself. Jesus said “And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come.” speaking of John. So, unless I am to interpret this scripture in any way other than literal, then John coming in the spirit of Elijah was the fulfilled prophesy, and Elijah isn’t coming back. There is no other distinction between two other Olive Trees other than the distinction made in Romans 11. So, my guess is it will be one Jew and one Gentile. My pastor said adamantly that it will be Moses and Elijah. I think he’s absolutely wrong, because Moses died. I’m not a hyper dispensationalist, but I think God deals with Israel a little different because of their preconceived kingdom mind set. I believe there is no difference between the kingdom gospel and the gospel of grace though. If that was the case, there would have been two crosses. One cross… one gospel.
Brad
Brad, this will be our last exchange on this since it’s not really the subject here. I do not have this blog for the purpose of going on a lot of rabbit trails just to address certain subjects that are brought up for the wrong reason in the first place.
What you ‘think’ about how God will deal with Israel differently is not necessarily what the Scripture says. He is no respecter of persons, but He does still have a prophecy portion left to fulfill upon them for their transgression. The tribulation is for a reason, to purge Israel and refine them.
Here is a literal passage where John says he is NOT Elijah. I understand the ‘spirit of Elijah; and John says he came ‘as’ said the prophet Esaias (Isaiah), he literally and plainly said he was not. So whether we think one way or another, we will likely have to wait and see.
John 1
21 And they asked him, What then? Art thou Elias? And he saith, I am not. Art thou that prophet? And he answered, No. 22 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What sayest thou of thyself? 23 He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias. 24 And they which were sent were of the Pharisees. 25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet?
This is the reason why some feel that John the Baptist came in the spirit of Elijah, to fulfil the prophecy partially, as only the Gentiles hearts were turned. I can do my best to look at Scripture, and see that if the prophecy has not been fully fulfilled, some is still left.
Yes, but again Jesus said this was the fulfilled prophesy. This is one of the bigger mysteries of the bible and why did Jesus and John “seem” to contradict each other? This ranks up there with the Melchizedek mystery lol. Who in the world was he? He apparently didn’t die either. Maybe the two witnesses are Enoch and Melchizedek. ( :
I don’t think they did contradict each other Brad. Remember when His disciples were asking Jesus about Elijah, but John the Baptist had already been dead? He told them that he ‘is coming and will restore all things’, then He said he ‘had come’ and they had done these things to him and He too would suffer at their hands.
This is like a dual fulfillment prophecy. Look at the prophecy of the temple and the Antichrist who would be the abomination of desolation. This has already been fulfilled in two people, Antiochus Ephiphanes and Titus in AD 70, and WILL be fulfilled again in the Great Tribulation.
The Bible tells us all we need to know on Melchizedek, apparently all we need to know is He was a forerunner, and we know He was a King and a Priest, and Hebrews 7:1-3 tells us this
For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the Most High God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings and blessed him, to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all, first being translated “king of righteousness,” and then also king of Salem, meaning “king of peace,” without father, without mother, without genealogy, having neither beginning of days nor end of life, but made like the Son of God, remains a priest continually.
So was this a Theophany/Christophany? Seems perplexing, but literally taken it sure seems to say so.
Anyways, as I said before and hope you will honor this time, let’s let this rabbit trail go 🙂
Holly I’m letting the rabbit trail go, so you don’t have to post this, but I think it’s also interesting that the western wall still stands. Jesus said not “One” stone will be left on another, so I think His prophecy was in fact a duel prophecy for 70 ad and the tribulation where the whole world (including the western wall) will be burned with “fervent heat.”
Thankyou for your article. I am not attempting to contribute to any conversation threads, but want to support the concerns that you raise in your article.
Kenosis is a clever false idea; and the ultimate conclusion of this false theology is not just that Jesus had our limitations on earth but the allure that WE can become more empowered with god-like powers … shouldn’t that send us some warning bells….?
Also, I would just like to share two of my favourite verses regarding the deity of Christ.
Job 9:8 HE (GOD) ALONE stretches out the heavens AND TREADS ON THE WAVES OF THE SEA…! Why did Jesus walk on the water? To reveal His identity: God alone can do this.
1 John 1: 1-3 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked at and our hands have touched – this we proclaim concerning the Word of life. THE LIFE APPEARED; we proclaim to you THE ETERNAL LIFE, WHICH WAS WITH THE FATHER AND HAS APPEARED TO US…
Love it Sue. I love how the Word connects together like it does. I happen to love too, so much depth.
Reblogged this on My Word Like Fire and commented:
HT: Thanks, Jenny L.
Prayerfully some might read and be Bereans (Acts 17:11) with everything these people teach that is opposed to Scripture and exalts themselves above His knowledge 2 Cor 10:4-5. May we have compassion on some making a difference…pulling them from the fire (Jude 1:22-23).
Hello,
When I use to attend my mom’s church her pastor had is watch a video of Kim Walker blabbering on about how she went to heaven.
The video was horrible and her testimony was disturbing but the worst part is how she made God out to be like a child. I was appalled and offended that she spoke about GOD that way.
Thanks,
Kate
Kate, I agree. Those fables contradict scripture and are not helpful.
Kate, so many want to heap up teachers that they will buy into anything it seems except the truth. It is very disturbing the way God is presented in all these false stories, teachings, new age ‘bibles’ etc., but in the end we know the enemy is behind it, whatever he can do to lie and blaspheme God. But in the end they will know who He is and every knee shall bow, every tongue confess… and it won’t be to the other Jesus of this world. They will see Him as He is.
(Link removed by admins).
Jeniffer, thank you for visiting. I am sorry, I just can’t post a link with Justin Peters as much as I admire him for his courage during his serious physical infirmity, we don’t share links by Calvinists, and he has converted to one. Love in Christ, Holly
Jennifer, sorry, I cannot really read Slovak so I had to leave the comment off, it didn’t translate well. In Christ, Holly
I don’t care if many people follow their teachings, if they are “popular,” if other people think they are “right on,” or another prominent pastor who you “trust” thinks they are so amazing. If you preach false doctrine you preach false doctrine. And I don’t think its a big RED FLAG over everything, its subtle, its sneaky, and it gets you to center everything on MAN not God. People will deny up and down a blue streak that JC or BJ has false teachings, until you start doing research.
You can’t just pick parts- this is evil stuff and subtle- which is why it traps you until you think Jesus was nothing more than a man anointed by God and not God all the time. All of this leads to another Jesus. A powerless Jesus and god who is so obsessed with you and your special snowflake powers because it/he needs you so bad for his dominionist kingdom. That isn’t the Jesus of Scripture. God loves us, true, but He certainly doesn’t need any of us.
All of the messages, “prophecies” and other junk coming from Destiny press, Wagner, and his cronies are the same. Its false. Revelations says a great many will fall by the wayside. A great “Falling away” from people from true faith in the actual Jesus. It doesn’t say one word about a great harvest. It says their will be increase in pains, disasters, etc, until the end.
Wake up sheeple!
Get out of the false church while you still can.
Jaeson, we can only continue to speak the Word of God in prayer and with soundness, hoping some will see the truth. It is truly distressing when we see how hung up some are in this madness, yet I think on Jude:
17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; 18 how that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. 19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit. 20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost, 21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22 And of some have compassion, making a difference: 23 and others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
1 Thess 5:21 always comes to mind:
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
We aren’t told to go by our feeling in scripture- we are told to go by the truth! Too many times I have heard people in this movement say that they were going on their “feelings” and they were “led in their heart to” xy or z. Nope. It says the heart is deceitful in my Bible…. You are led by …what spirit? I want to ask. The things Jesus says in Matthew are not “feel good,” by any extent of the word.
The New Apostolic Reformation– and the like go entirely on feelings. Their preachers travel the same circles and justify each other. There is no overseeing body. It’s sheep going off a cliff. Look into the history of their movement. It is false. Branham and his KKK affiliations, false teachings, “angel” that had to be there for anything to happen, etc. Todd Bently was the same way. Who endorses these crazies? All the same people from the same line and train of thought. They have changed the interpretation of many scriptures that for hundreds of years never meant what they think they mean.
Do this, I dare you- if you are in this movement. Listen to a message by Johnson, Bickle, Jill Austin, Che Ahn, any of their major players, and check every single verse in context to see if its saying what they are trying to make it say. Look at the verses historical context, the surrounding passages, where what it is saying was used in other parts of scripture. When you start to do that, and research this group’s sad history, you will realize its false teaching.
Also you can ask God- is this stuff not right? What parts are not? I think most Christians caught up in this have never paused to wonder. Are these people hearing from Christ, or from another god?
It looks good to want to serve God, or see people who appear on the outside to be genuine…but what of the inside? The me-gospel has been mainstreamed into the evangelical church. Nothing is more me-centered than dominionism and false prophetic to make you feel comfortable and “right on!” the “dream destiny” your god wants you on. This is the greatest and worst idol in the church- the idea you are a special Christian snowflake..
Depart now before you are accursed..
I never knew it was this bad. Every abomination mentioned by Walter Martin and Hank Hanegraaff in their books Christianity in Crisis and Counterfeit Revival, combined, and bonuses. And some of Hank’s friends are caught up in it. I can’t wrap my mind around it. The use of dust to create a fake aura is too obvious. How does anyone with the analytic mindset of Lee Strobel fall for this? Whatever happened to the saying “experiences are notoriously unreliable” which Hank used to quip all the time? Now HH himself is chasing smells and bells. I have been played mind games with.
Jason, the issue is that a lot of the people who are ‘discernment’ aren’t always discerning about the truth of God’s Word itself. A lot of them don’t really have the gospel right, some that might end up compromising so they can sell books or keep up ‘their ministry’. All the wisdom in the world won’t help Jason, if the wisdom isn’t acquired by applying our hearts to His truth, to listening to Him (Prov 22:17-21). A lot of these men are taught by other men, instead of the Lord (also 1 John 2:27), so all I can say is they should take heed to this: Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding. Prov 23:23
Thank you for exposing the teaching of Bill Johnson. If, in fact, Bill teaches that Christ was born again then that needs to be exposed. I attended one of Bill’s sermons in Austin, Tx several years ago. I remember Bill creating an impartation tunnel with his staff. As you walked through the tunnel Bill imparted a gift to you. I did not recognize this strategy as being used any where in the Bible. I remember some audience members screaming at the top of their lungs. I came away very confused and I know that God is not a God of chaos or confusion.
Brady, I’m speechless… no, He is not an author of confusion, chaos only comes from the enemy.
“Judge not that you be not judged. With the spirit with which you judge others you also shall be judged.” Let God do the judging, it’s not your job. You are not qualified. Jesus warned about trying to judge others. Best to heed his warnings.
Hi Mark, thanks for coming to offer your opinion. Let’s look more fully at what His Word says.
The Bible exhorts us to ‘Prove all things; hold fast that which is good’ (1 Thess 5:21). What is good is His Word, not the made up words of men. Jesus told us “Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.” John 7:24
So we are to judge (also see 1 Cor 5:12-13) within the church. We are to mark and avoid those who bring a different doctrine. We are to warn (as Paul did day and night in tears for years for these who bring false doctrine – Acts 20:25-32). We are not to bear with those who bring another Jesus or another gospel (2 Cor 11:3-15), we are to ‘cut off their opportunity’ to deceive others into thinking they are some sort of apostles. We are to take heed to the doctrine (1 Tim 4:16), so we can save not only ourselves but others from error.
I’m not judging by the appearance, but what I am doing is judging doctrine by God’s Word (Acts 17:11). That is called a noble thing, no apostle told someone who did this ‘not qualified’.
This applies to all brethren:
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. Rom 16:17-18